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Firing someone...

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  • benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
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    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
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    To all: My apologies for the wall o' text. I didn't realize this would turn out this long and I don't really have time to write a short version.

    To the OP - Don't feel bad. In my experience, firing someone is, in most cases and in the long run, a favor to both them and the organization.

    ...I've worked especially hard with under performing subordinates to raise their performance and/or discover their strengths and interests which may be applied to other assignments within the organization for which they are better suited.

    ...my industry does not really suit itself to letting people go who are just not good fits. We use progressive discipline and only terminate for poor performance after several meetings with the employee, setting up action plans, meeting regularly to measure corrective results, etc. I also would consider a different position for an employee who was simply not performing. I imagine not all companies have that luxury.
    I spent nearly 30 years in an organization that did have that luxury. I was put into the firing process just once.

    A new manager (as in, new to management, having washed out of a job in a more prestigious division) came in and as was the custom in our organization, he was encouraged by mid-level to start firing someone, anyone, it didn't matter who. Firing was a long process and upper management considered a first-line who successfully fired someone to be really solid as a manager. My new boss had a choice of two. The other person was a general screw-up with no particular glaring weaknesses; she was weak at everything, pretty equally. I, otoh, tended to get lost in the weeds of the law and over-investigate; my completed cases were works of art but my overall case clearance rate was woefully inadequate.

    He went through all the steps which required him to put me on a written improvement plan. Well, that fell right into my wheelhouse; I can follow written instructions. I perfectly and ahead of schedule accomplished every assigned task. The process of firing me had failed, ostensibly because I had improved. In fact, it had failed because my boss was forced to put into writing everything he wanted me to do and I was able to check everything off the list. Previously, his modus operandi had been an endless stream of "Yes, you did what I told you but you didn't do this other thing." "This other thing" was new and previously not required, every single time.

    So, I wasn't a star employee. I was merely adequate. My strengths at some particular parts of the job were so superior that 30-year veterans were coming to me for advice within a month or two of me starting. That didn't make up for the fact that, overall, the job was mostly rote paperwork which bored me silly and I didn't get it done on time. I was, quite clearly, not a bad employee but certainly a bad fit to that particular job.

    After the firing process had aborted and my boss had told me that I was safe, I reflected and reached some conclusions.

    That same week, I directly called my boss 3 levels up, the lowest level who could summarily reassign an employee. He invited me to come up and talk. I took less than 3 minutes to explain to him that he knew my work from certain special projects and that I was capable of great things. However, in my current position, I would never realize my potential and, frankly, wouldn't do much to boost the numbers of his division. If he could reassign me to some place more suited to my skills and style, I would take a downgrade to get that job.

    His response was immediate and a bit surprising to me. "I've been watching you and I'm aware of the situation. I have at least two other spots I think you could work. Go back to your group and clean up your cases; we'll move you within the next couple of weeks."

    Two weeks later I got dropped into a "special projects" section. In my previous job, the emphasis was on standardized work, turned out as efficiently as possible. In this new section, the job changed every day and might be wildly different from one day to the next. For the next decade, I absolutely thrived. I had to prove myself, of course, so the good work didn't get assigned to me immediately. However, within a few years, I had to keep a go-bag in the office. It was not unusual for me to get calls that went, roughly, "Fly to Oakland. No, we don't know the exact job and no, we don't know who you'll liaison with. Just go, walk into the local office, and do what needs to be done. No, we don't know when you're coming back or if you're coming directly back. Stop asking questions and get to the airport!" My Dear Lord, I loved that job so much it makes me all gooey inside to remember it.

    I said all that to say this: Sometimes, a forced change of venue is the best thing that can happen to someone. I wasn't exactly fired but I came as close as possible without actually being escorted out. I forced myself out of my job and, even though my ability to advance was forever compromised, I spent the rest of my career enjoying work at which I was very, very good and was able to help very, very many people.

    tl;dr - Firing (or, at least, forcing someone out of a job) can be an extremely good thing for the person forced to move on and adapt.

    An addendum: About a decade later, the manager who had attempted to fire me was a student in a class I was teaching. He talked to me over drinks after class one evening. He had washed out of management and finished his career doing the job he had tried to fire me from. He told me that his attempt to fire me had bothered him ever since. He now realized that there's a job for any particular set of skills belonging to a hard-working individual. He said he should have recognized that and helped me move on to a better-fitting job instead of wasting months trying to fire me. In the end, he apologized for needlessly setting my career back. He showed me better character than I thought he had and I was grateful to him for that. At that point, any lingering animosity I had toward him dissipated.

    We do 360 reviews so wouldn't be a problem where I'm at.
    The only other time I got a less-than-perfect review was one year (of three) that I spent in a workgroup that decided to do a 360, group-only review. There were no individual reviews; we jointly wrote one review for the group and it was copied to each of our personnel files. It was a three-year project. In year one, we went like gangbusters laying groundwork and rated ourselves highly. In year three, we wrapped up and delivered a killer final product. Again, we rated ourselves highly.

    That middle year, though, was a grind of background work, investigations, public speeches, industry contacts, cross-agency coordination, and endless meetings with attorneys. We did quarterly 360s; in our annual we gave ourselves a lower rating. We simply didn't have enough tangible results to justify a high one, even though we were working just as hard. In fact, we mutually agreed on a numeric rating that caused us all to lose our bonuses that year.

    Most people, it seems, find it surprising that 360s and self-evaluation can function at all well. They can; I believe they are worth the extra effort required to make them work.
    Texas SOT
     

    ROGER4314

    Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
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    Jul 11, 2009
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    Done correctly, firing is not a difficult process. The employee should have been talked to several times about necessary changes and those private talks should be documented. After that, it's up to him/her.

    Flash
     

    mitchntx

    Sarcasm Sensei
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    5   0   0
    Jan 15, 2012
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    Waco-ish
    Done correctly, firing is not a difficult process. The employee should have been talked to several times about necessary changes and those private talks should be documented. After that, it's up to him/her.

    Flash

    And I believe that also.

    In my case, I'm not her supervisor. She certainly doesn't take direction ... at least from me.
    And I feel as though I will nuke (no pun intended) her career if I honestly speak up.
     

    TX69

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    I have held one position where I had to do someone elses dirty work and that did suck. One guy was in a similar spot with his personal life but you can't let that dictate company business.

    I have been on the other side where I was caught up in a company firing frenzy where more than 50% of the salaried personnel were laid off. We had a CEO that was a paranoid Brit that would go on benders firing people. Problem for him was that being a heavy tech company trade secrets and experience were extremely valuable and finding good people was difficult. When 911 happened he started firing everyone two weeks later. Although the affects took some time to occur that company went on the downhill slide. The people he fired went to work for the competition or created their own businesses to compete. They, including myself, worked hard with our assets to take revenues away from them.

    Be careful who and how you fire
     

    Sugar Land

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    All it takes is one here but if you admit you have a problem before hand they will help fix you.

    Steal something or hit someone and it's "we will help you to the door".
     

    txinvestigator

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    May 28, 2008
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    Done correctly, firing is not a difficult process. The employee should have been talked to several times about necessary changes and those private talks should be documented. After that, it's up to him/her.

    Flash

    Some behaviors are so egregious that an immediate termination is appropriate.
     

    TheDan

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    Nov 11, 2008
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    I only ever felt bad once. Had to fire the guy not for performance, but because he couldn't show up for work due to medical issues. I tried to get his position changed to part time so that he could stay on but HR and senior management didn't go for it. Slightly off topic, but many of our capacity issues could have been solved by having a couple part time people. I argued for it many times, but they just didn't want to deal with the extra payroll hassles.

    Everyone I ever fired knew it was coming, tho. I would always put them on a performance improvement plan and let them know they were gone if they couldn't meet it. Most either stepped up their game and became good employees or left on their own.

    I did have one guy that seemed like he was perpetually on improvement plans. I would put him on one, he'd meet it, and then a few months later be back on it. Then one day he collapsed and had to be taken to the hospital. Turns out he was diabetic and never knew it. Once he got his blood sugar levels regulated, he was a great employee.
     
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    Moonpie

    Omnipotent Potentate for hire.
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    Gunz are icky.
    Fail a random at my work and you're gone.
    They test for alcohol now. Instant results. Positive and you're gone.
    They can test your hair and cuticles for past usage. Refusal = fired.
    Don't like it? Work somewhere else.
     

    benenglish

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    Fail a random at my work and you're gone.
    They test for alcohol now. Instant results. Positive and you're gone.
    They can test your hair and cuticles for past usage. Refusal = fired.
    Don't like it? Work somewhere else.
    I would work someplace else. No employer has any moral or ethical right to regulate my legal activities or state of inebriation (via whatever source) when I am off duty. They certainly have the authority...but they don't have the right.

    The Air Force used to do it right in their pilot testing program, back when cocaine was the drug of choice. News of an impending drug test would leak out a couple of weeks in advance. If you tested clean, it didn't matter if you used; you had it under control. If you were so out of control that you couldn't abstain for a couple of weeks, then you were gone. I might be willing to work under an employer with a policy implemented in such an enlightened way.

    But these "zero tolerance" testing schemes? How many times have we gone over "zero tolerance" on this board in other contexts? And how many times have we concluded that "zero tolerance" was equivalent to "zero intelligence"?
     

    NeckBeard

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    Apr 13, 2013
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    Fail a random at my work and you're gone.
    They test for alcohol now. Instant results. Positive and you're gone.
    They can test your hair and cuticles for past usage. Refusal = fired.
    Don't like it? Work somewhere else.

    alcohol? If i'm not on the clock and i'm having a bourbon, it's none of their damn business.

    some of my co-workers get hammered at happy hours after work and are very hung over the next day. It's actually some funny stuff. those irish folks can hold their liquor!
     
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