Firing someone...

[TwinGlocks]

Long story short, I inherited a subordinate when his old boss quit and it turns out he wasn't the right fit for our company. His strengths were not in line with the company's needs and he struggled with the work that we had so we let him go. I admit the feedback I gave was the deciding factor in company leadership's decision to tell HR to counsel him out. I did this knowing he just bought a house, had a kid, and his wife doesn't work. I now feel kind of bad about the whole thing.

Has anyone else experienced guilt over letting someone go or getting someone fired?

 

[Eli]

I might've given the guy a heads-up if he was a decent guy. On the up side, in Texas he'll probably be working again soon.

Eli

 

[jrbfishn]

Yup, nearly every time. Especially where the person just does not fit the job. Happens sometimes. Sucks. But sometimes it is the best thing for everyone involved.

from an idgit coffeeholic

 

[trigger643]

In my 30 years in commercial lending managing teams from 3 to 300, it's been the most difficult task I've faced. At the end of the day, if I'm not happy with the employee's performance, chances are they are not happy in their position. With the exception of gross violations, I've worked especially hard with under performing subordinates to raise their performance and/or discover their strengths and interests which may be applied to other assignments within the organization for which they are better suited. Should these measures fail, it's no surprise to the employee and for the most part the separation ends as a mutual decision.

Having been laid off 3 times form 2009 to 2013, I recognized the process was, for the most part, more difficult on my bosses than it was on me. Fortunately I've never been in a position where I had to release people due to economic conditions.

 

[Dawico]

Nope.

Being in traveling construction, generally a guy has to be pretty worthless to get canned. All a guy has to do is follow a few simple rules and put some effort in to keep their job. It doesn't take much really as we have a rough time keeping help (most people can't handle the traveling).

I like to think we are more than fair with what we expect and what we pay. If they can't do it then goodbye.

That being said, I think we generally deal with a different group of people than most companies.

 

[vmax]

I had a mechanic back in the 90's doing drugs. I had to go pull him out of bed after payday weekends because he would stay up all weekend on coke. I knew and he knew I knew. I had to fire him and he cried like a baby in my office. That got to me, but I couldn't risk him doing his job wrong and getting someone hurt. I ask him so see help and I think he did. I saw him years later and he was looking good and had a new career going for him.

 

[robertc1024]

When my company was in financial crisis mode years ago I got the "Congratulations, you are now the production manager - fire four people" speech from the boss. I didn't like it, but I did what I had to do. I'd worked with those people for years. Getting rid of the guy who "worked" for me who spent most of his work time looking at girls in fishnet stockings was quite a bit easier.

 

[txinvestigator]

I haven't felt guilty because the employee has always done it to themself. However, my industry does not really suit itself to letting people go who are just not good fits. We use progressive discipline and only terminate for poor performance after several meetings with the employee, setting up action plans, meeting regularly to measure corrective results, etc. I also would consider a different position for an employee who was simply not performing. I imagine not all companies have that luxury.

Of course, we have behaviors that are not performance related that can lead to quicker or immediate termination. For example, on Saturday I fired a guy on the spot when he showed up to work stoned and reeking.

Never felt guilty....

 

[mitchntx]

OT ... sorta.
For you manager types ...

Dear Abbey

I'm not a manager, but am held accountable for communications at my plant. Been doing the same type job for over 35 years with two different companies.

4 years ago, there were 5 of us supporting the plant, generating graphic art, video production, photography and basic marketing strategy.
Today, there is me and one other of the original crew remaining due to retirements, attrition and transfers.
The remaining member of the group has no business whatsoever in the communications field.

Her work ethic is non-existent, there is no motivation to learn the necessary skill set and she has no vision or imagination.
Consequently ... its just me.

My dilema is ratting her out with our boss.

Lets discuss my boss for a moment ... he is the 13th manager/supervisor this group has had in the last decade and the 7th in the last 5 years.
He's as clueless as she is as we were dumped into his organization. All he sees is results and none of the nuts and bolts work that takes place.

If she were a total bitch, it would be different. But she's a great person, just a terrible co-worker.

What would TGT do?

signed,

wish I was retired

 

[txinvestigator]

Many employees have limited vision, and only see things from their little corner of the world. When people just use adjectives and not facts, it is my experience that they are expressing their personal feelings and not fact.

I would think the person writing the letter has issues.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

We do 360 reviews so wouldn't be a problem where I'm at.

I would be willing to bet this guy will both be ignored by his boss and his coworker will find out and that relationship will be ruined as well.

Sometimes "suck it up" is the best answer unfortunately.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

And yes, all reviews should be objective and fact based. Specific behaviors and examples are required or I wouldn't listen as a manager.

It's the difference between me letting someone vent and me actually looking into something.

 

[karlac]

Fired an employee in the mid 80's who commmitted suicide shortly thereafter, leaving a wife and child. Apparently the termination of employment, while not the only, was one of many contributing factors. While I don't dwell on it, it is not something you forget. A strange mixture of sadness and anger.

 

[txinvestigator]

And yes, all reviews should be objective and fact based. Specific behaviors and examples are required or I wouldn't listen as a manager.

Last February I took charge of a 25 person account. My first week in an employee came to me and wanted a private meet. He complained about the others on his shift, and how they all made HIM look bad. I knew then who the problem was.

 

[NeckBeard]

Never had to fire anyone, but have been on the receiving end. The first time was in 2008 and it was the best thing that happened to me. Got a new job a week later and still had 2 months severance left.

 

[mitchntx]

We do 360 reviews so wouldn't be a problem where I'm at.

I would be willing to bet this guy will both be ignored by his boss and his coworker will find out and that relationship will be ruined as well.

Sometimes "suck it up" is the best answer unfortunately.

We used to have a 360 process ... it died on the vine because I don't think many took them seriously.
Being ignored or forgotten has its advantages.

Suck it up has been the normal op ... I recognize and admit I "project" too much and filter actions accordingly.
This world is more artistic flair than procedural guidance. What I may call a work in progress she's perfectly content with.
It gets frustrating. We have 4 big comm projects all working in parallel. It would be nice to share the load ...


Edit:

I'm the Sr. tech and consequently the POC for much of the plant.

When I attempt to push some of the load, "I don't know how" or "You'll have to show me" are the typical responses.
I've spent hours tutoring Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Premeire and nothing seems to stick.

She hides her Kindle in her desk drawer and reads it instead of asking if there is anything she can do.

Maybe I'm being punked ...


And I'm venting now ... feels good ...

 

[Dawico]

OT ... sorta.
For you manager types ...

Dear Abbey

I'm not a manager, but am held accountable for communications at my plant. Been doing the same type job for over 35 years with two different companies.

4 years ago, there were 5 of us supporting the plant, generating graphic art, video production, photography and basic marketing strategy.
Today, there is me and one other of the original crew remaining due to retirements, attrition and transfers.
The remaining member of the group has no business whatsoever in the communications field.

Her work ethic is non-existent, there is no motivation to learn the necessary skill set and she has no vision or imagination.
Consequently ... its just me.

My dilema is ratting her out with our boss.

Lets discuss my boss for a moment ... he is the 13th manager/supervisor this group has had in the last decade and the 7th in the last 5 years.
He's as clueless as she is as we were dumped into his organization. All he sees is results and none of the nuts and bolts work that takes place.

If she were a total bitch, it would be different. But she's a great person, just a terrible co-worker.

What would TGT do?

signed,

wish I was retired

You have brought the issues up with her?

One issue at a time in baby steps. Try to be gentle and keep her from going on the defensive.

A useful discussion with her may help you both.

 

[TheTexasTom]

Never felt bad, not once. But this is because I have always had enough control and the right situations to give employees opportunities to grow or change and in every instance they have chosen to not perform.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Long story short, I inherited a subordinate when his old boss quit and it turns out he wasn't the right fit for our company. His strengths were not in line with the company's needs and he struggled with the work that we had so we let him go. I admit the feedback I gave was the deciding factor in company leadership's decision to tell HR to counsel him out. I did this knowing he just bought a house, had a kid, and his wife doesn't work. I now feel kind of bad about the whole thing.

Has anyone else experienced guilt over letting someone go or getting someone fired?

NEVER!

That said I have a completely different approach. I do not beleive in firing someone that has not committed a crime. I have not had to fire many folks over a long career. Mostly because of my hiring process.

In most firings, what occurs is I call in the individual and we have a long talk, I have dates/times, or detailed issues I address. Then I tell them its not a good fit and they would be more successful somewhere else. I suggest they take off the rest of the week and come see me on Monday and tell me their decision to either do it our way or chose the highway. I then tell them, if they chose to leave, I will give them 2 weeks off effective at that time with pay. I will also write a letter of recommendation and support them within the limits of our ability as they transition.

I have never had an employee not chose the highway. But its up to you make sure that he knows he has no future there beyond Monday...

NOTE: the majority of the people I have fired was done so when I pressed charges against them.

As long as they have been honest in the performance I see it as only a misfit and we are as much to blame as the individual concerned.

The hiring process: WAY back there I interviewed with EDS. It was grilling to say the least. My company handler told me that on Monday I would meet and be interviewed by ROSS PEROT. I froze in the chair, OMG Mr Perot! He leaned back and laughed as he could see my fright. Don't worry you have the job. But Mr Perot interviews everyone. The way he works if he saw something in you that would cause him to not hire you...me and everyone you interviewed with would be out of a job...so we would not dare send someone in to see him that was not up to his standards...

I have followed that approach all my career and I can say it given me some of the best folks anyone could hope to have.

In addition I "grow within". We hired a receptionist and she was a HOTTIE, long hair, short skirts, small waist, big tomatoes. I would see here when i came and always talk with her. SHE WAS smart and hard working. She moved up to file clerk, then an Admin. I called her in one day and told her if she would enroll in college we would pay for it and at the end of the first semester I wanted to see her grades. She did, she did well and I found a slot for her as a an Admin Asst Project Mgr. Later the Asst proj mgr, then proj mgr. Today, she is a VP of a company out on the E coast.

At least 3 of my former employees are now VP's of Tech companies and one is VP of a Big 5 Consulting company. And they were all entry level people when they started with me.

You cannot feel bad if someone has to go

 

[Moonpie]

Years ago I had the misfortune to be assigned with training a "new guy" on my job.
The "new guy" wasn't new. He was about 52 yrs old and a long time employee of the company. He was about 3years away from retirement.
His old dept. had been downsized and he was moved into our group so the guy still had a job. He still had to complete the training and become qualified to stay.
Training him did not go well.
He had come from a job where he spent most of his time sitting around staring at a few computer screens all day.
The new job was very active and required a lot of walking.
The equipment we worked with contained very flammable and explosive chemicals so attention to detail while opening/closing, starting up, clearing, etc was tantamount. You could blow up everything and everyone into atoms with a screw up.
The guy just could not "get it". No matter how many times I lectured, explained, demonstrated, tested, reminded him how to do something, he just could not(would not) comprehend. Very frustrating is an understatement.
One day I asked him to draw a simple One-Line-Diagram of the piping assembly we were training on. I stepped away and returned a short time later to find him ASLEEP at the desk. At 9am in the morning.
Just getting the guy up and on his feet was a chore.
I tried. Really tried to help this guy.
After 4 MONTHS of training. supervision calls me in and asks for a sit-rep.
I dreaded this part but I looked right at the boss and "If you turn that guy loose out in the plant it would be insane. He is incompetent and a danger to all of us. He WILL cause a major accident."
Boss Man's eyes opened wide and said, Are you positive about that?
Yes. He can not comprehend what is happening out there. It would be criminally negligent to let that guy loose out there alone.
Boss Man said, Well, I didn't expect that!
So they took the trainee and gave him his walking papers.
I felt like crap about wrecking the guys future.
In the end tho it was the right thing to do.
He was a danger to all of us, our employer, and no less than the entire community.
If he had caused a major catastrophe it would have cost millions, jobs, and possibly even peoples lives.