Denied firearm at Academy because I answered a "prohibited" question at a different Academy?

[Renegade]

Need no, good idea yes. When ATF is yanking licenses, you protect your business.

The best way to protect your business is to know and follow the law/regs to the letter.

Doing additional things like photo copying IDs, extra checks, will only get you into trouble either with ATF or civilly.

 

[SabreFirearms]

The best way to protect your business is to know and follow the law/regs to the letter.

Doing additional things like photo copying IDs, extra checks, will only get you into trouble either with ATF or civilly.

And where exactly did I say anything of the like?

 

[ScottDLS]

it is illegal to use NICS outside the scope of of the procedures of a 4473. Running NICS after the gun has been transferred is outside that scope.

States also run NICS check when you apply for and renew LTC/CCP. That‘s why you get to skip the check when buying a gun.

 

[Tnhawk]

He mentioned TWIC,

"

TWIC​

"The Transportation Worker Identification Credential, also known as TWIC®, is required by the Maritime Transportation Security Act for workers who need access to secure areas of the nation’s maritime facilities/vessels, and others who require a TWIC®. TSA conducts a security threat assessment (background check) to determine a person’s eligibility and issues the credential."

TSA conducts the background check. Recently I read about TSA have a $$$$ list, that is not really on the no fly list, but is on the harass list. People who are not in sync with the current administration. So it is an expansion of the database for political leaning. Not saying I know for sure, but it is possible.

This could be the reason some TWIC cards have been approved quickly and others took months of delay. My renewal took more time than the original issuance of the card.

 

[Txhighlander]

This could be the reason some TWIC cards have been approved quickly and others took months of delay. My renewal took more time than the original issuance of the card.

Never had to renew mine, I am OK with that.

 

[Renegade]

And where exactly did I say anything of the like?

YOU literally gave an example of doing more than is required and then pivoted to protecting your business.

“Need no, good idea yes. When ATF is yanking licenses, you protect your business.”

So I added my POV.

 

[Renegade]

States also run NICS check when you apply for and renew LTC/CCP. That‘s why you get to skip the check when buying a gun.

Varies with different states. Some are more stringent than NICS, some less. Obviously less stringent means no NICS bypass.Texas is more stringent requiring fingerprints and photos.

 

[Tnhawk]

Never had to renew mine, I am OK with that.

My first renewal was online and went easily but the second renewal required an appointment with long wait time dealing with rude TSA employees.

 

[PBRStreetGang]

I used to work at Academy behind the gun counter.



Keep in mind I don’t agree with the way things are, just telling how it is.



1. Regardless of having an LTC or not you still need to fill out an ATF 4473. Having a valid (current) LTC in Texas just means they don’t have to do a background check. Some places still run a background check anyway. Academy doesn’t run the background check with LTC.



2. There are a number of qualifying questions on the ATF 4473 that if you get anyone wrong you will be automatically denied the sale at the store level regardless of LTC. You have to answer every thing correctly before they will even run the FBI NICS background check if no LTC



On the current ATF 4473 those questions are number 21a through n. The most often question people innocently get wrong is 21a. It’s confusing and people don’t understand what it means. You will be denied sale at the store level regardless of LTC and won’t even get a background check done.



The correct answer to 21a is “yes” if you are buying the gun for your self or as a bona fide gift for another person with out expecting payment



21a has to do with straw purchases.



Criminals know this and get it right to commit straw purchases , unfortunately unknowing, unsuspecting and innocent people don’t when trying to exercise their 2A rights.



The instructions on how to answer the questions are on the form. Read them and understand them. Ahead of time is best.



You can find the ATF 4473 online at www.ATF.gov



You can be denied sale for not having proper ID but that is not a disqualifyer. Just come back with current valid not expired ID and you should be fine.



You can also be denied and 30 day flagged for being drunk, high or erratic behavior



I have had to deny sales for all. Reeking of alcohol and marijuana and screaming i need to buy a gun to kill someone



The only customer to complain was the lady screaming I need a gun to kill somebody



We play along, get ID first, not let them access any firearms, document and deny sale.



All within discretion of FFL

1. If a background check is not required because of LTC or not run because you answered the ATF 4473 qualifying questions wrong then there is no NTN# that goes on the ATF 4473. The NTN# is the record number of the FBI NICS background check. Without this NTN# there is nothing you can appeal to the FBI because you weren’t denied from a background check but at the store level.
2. Being denied at the Academy store level for answering the qualifying questions wrong on the ATF 4473 doesn’t not mean diddly squat to anyone else but Academy. By law they have to deny the sale. However it doesn’t stop you from purchasing a gun from another company. The 30 day prohibition is an Academy store policy. Not a law. It’s some type of CYA thing. And they have to make an extra effort to document it in their system database that the seller has to check to make sure that you are not on the 30 day Academy prohibition. The best explanation I’ve heard for it and the only one that makes any sense to me is that if you are really up to no good then you will go to another company to try to make a straw purchase or otherwise illegally obtain a firearm. FFL’s in general are under tremendous scrutiny and big box stores are huge targets for criminals. They are trying to limit any liability from anyone that could be suspected of obtaining a firearm illegally.
3. If you get delayed or denied by FBI NICS check then you’re screwed no matter where you go and will need the NTN # to reference to resolve with the FBI. I would recommend consulting an attorney in cases of denial and if your delay wasn’t resolved and turned into a denial.
4. So if Academy has denied you at the store level you can either wait the 30 days and try again or simply buy it elsewhere from another company. You may be able to go to another Academy but that depends upon how diligent the guy behind the counter is at flagging you for the store policy 30 no buy from all Academy stores and how diligent they are at checking it at when you try to buy again or from some other Academy store. However I how found them to be very diligent about this policy.
5. It could be someone with the same name or relative or someone living at the same address who is on the Academy 30 day prohibited list and they could deny sale. Every thing is at the discretion of the FFL/seller.
6. I always followed the law and didn’t do anything that would get me in trouble but I was not overzealous about denying someone their 2A rights however some things were blatantly obvious and could not be ignored. Multiple cameras are always recording everything especially the gun counter. Management and Law Enforcement routinely check that stuff in particular in cases of shoplifting but management are actively monitoring things on camera and the ATF paperwork /NICS status of buyers /A&D log systems of gun sales.

 

[V-Tach]

Another claim that all Academy's don't run NICS if you have an LTC.

Bullshit.

 

[homeyzhi]

So, this morning I tried purchasing a P365X from the Academy closest to me.
I bought it online, and picked the pick up today option.

Went there, brought all my documentation, filled the form, and after a long time was ultimately denied the purchase because I "answered a prohibited question at a different Academy", or at least that's what the guy said. And that I would be able to try again in 30 days.

They asked me if I had tried or had bought a firearm in another Academy in the past.

This is the first time in my life I've ever tried to purchase a firearm. Only firearm-related things I've bought at Academy is ammo and a holster.

Has anyone ever received that reply when trying to buy a gun at Academy? They gave me the paper which I assume everyone gets when they are denied the purchase of a firearm. Something that says Deny and Delay. But it's supposed to have a "case number" which I can use when calling the relevant government agency to see why I was denied, but they didn't write down said number.

Would like to know what exactly went wrong so I can know if I should try again at another store or what.

Thanks!

get a refund. check out gunbroker.com. Order your firearm and have it send to an FFL near you. Check it out.

 

[jimbo]

I have purchased several guns from Academy with no problems. Certain times of the year Academy offers a 10% discount to veterans. And if I use the Academy credit card I get another 5% off. That's 15% off their price. That's usually a very good deal for me. Just my 2 cents

 

[ScottDLS]

Varies with different states. Some are more stringent than NICS, some less. Obviously less stringent means no NICS bypass.Texas is more stringent requiring fingerprints and photos.

What I was saying is that states in order to have qualifying (to skip the purchase check) firearms licenses, have to actually run a FBI NICS check as part of the application and every 5 years thereafter, regardless of what else they do.

 

[stanley3smith]

So, this morning I tried purchasing a P365X from the Academy closest to me.
I bought it online, and picked the pick up today option.

Went there, brought all my documentation, filled the form, and after a long time was ultimately denied the purchase because I "answered a prohibited question at a different Academy", or at least that's what the guy said. And that I would be able to try again in 30 days.

They asked me if I had tried or had bought a firearm in another Academy in the past.

This is the first time in my life I've ever tried to purchase a firearm. Only firearm-related things I've bought at Academy is ammo and a holster.

Has anyone ever received that reply when trying to buy a gun at Academy? They gave me the paper which I assume everyone gets when they are denied the purchase of a firearm. Something that says Deny and Delay. But it's supposed to have a "case number" which I can use when calling the relevant government agency to see why I was denied, but they didn't write down said number.

Would like to know what exactly went wrong so I can know if I should try again at another store or what.

Thanks!

You answered a prohibiting question on the federal form 4473, this is what prohibited your purchase. This prohibition is federal and has nothing to do with Academy. You fail the form, no further action was taken. The would be no background check because you hold a Texas LTCH.

Academy policy is to prohibit any failing to properly complete federal form 4473 for (30) days.

This prevents people from gaming the system.

The language on the prohibiting questions are purposefully written in a confusing manner.

Most likely you answered one of the first three prohibitive questions incorrectly, that’s where most people get hung up.

If you failed to answer the questions properly any dealer would would deny you the sale.

Watch a YouTube video on how to properly complete the Federal form 4473.

The first answer is yes, the last two left blank for US citizens, those in between are no.

Cheers!

 

[V-Tach]

<insert any face palm meme>

 

[ZX9RCAM]

You answered a prohibiting question on the federal form 4473, this is what prohibited your purchase. This prohibition is federal and has nothing to do with Academy. You fail the form, no further action was taken. The would be no background check because you hold a Texas LTCH.

Academy policy is to prohibit any failing to properly complete federal form 4473 for (30) days.

This prevents people from gaming the system.

The language on the prohibiting questions are purposefully written in a confusing manner.

Most likely you answered one of the first three prohibitive questions incorrectly, that’s where most people get hung up.

If you failed to answer the questions properly any dealer would would deny you the sale.

Watch a YouTube video on how to properly complete the Federal form 4473.

The first answer is yes, the last two left blank for US citizens, those in between are no.

Cheers!

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Bozz10mm]

<insert any face palm meme>

 

[@TX_1]

This could be the reason some TWIC cards have been approved quickly and others took months of delay. My renewal took more time than the original issuance of the card.

Like most things in DC, today it has a bold portion of political preference involved. TSA is notorious for that. Enough that there are articles about it, in spite of effort suppress them. I only fly when I absolutely have to, and that is not often. Not because of safety, but because of harassment.

 

[Tnhawk]

L

Like most things in DC, today it has a bold portion of political preference involved. TSA is notorious for that. Enough that there are articles about it, in spite of effort suppress them. I only fly when I absolutely have to, and that is not often. Not because of safety, but because of harassment.

I let my TSA Pre-Check and TWIC Card expire as I don't need them any longer. I've retired and would prefer to drive across the Country than deal with TSA and the airlines.

 

[festering]