Cops.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Disclaimer: I am jaded and Biased against the police in this nation. This is not a personal attack on every individual Law Enforcement Officer, this is a generalized rant, I understand that most of you will not agree.
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I hate Cops. I worked as a Federal Law Enforcement Operator for a year and a half, and the folks that worked with me and my outfit are the reason I do not do it today, these people drove me to take up my hobby as my main job, and it has been a blessing, but I feel as though people in my camp (politically) are oxymoronic when it comes to this stuff, and I want to have a conversation about it.

For the same reasons I used to hate liberals and leftists for hating cops, while also hating guns and personal defense, I have began to disdain the bootlicking right. How can people that say they are pro-freedom, champion personal defense, challenge gun laws, and claim to love their neighbors simultaneously be advocates for the literal fingertips of the system that would take their rights? I’m not saying we need NO policing, but the current trajectory is straight into authoritarianism. Any time I talk to someone about the issue, it gets conflated with “defunding” or “abolishing” police, but what I think almost every American would really agree on is that the way these agencies are organized clearly doesn’t work, and neither does the prison system, and they need to change.

When the party that says “Don’t send Ukraine Money, it doesn’t work” is the party that keeps the checks blank for police efforts, doesn’t it seem odd? Doesn’t it seem strange that our own, domestic system doesn’t work and our solution is to, no matter what, give them more resources? I think that if we are going to, as a society, keep cops around and well funded, the very idea needs to change entirely.

Hmmm. I've put some actual thought into the state of our law enforcement, and I look at it from a few different viewpoints. It's an internal debate and hard to explain.

For LEOs, I both have the utmost respect for individuals who pursue a career in the service and protection of others around him, but also some harsh criticism about the current state of things. It's often a selfless, thankless (not always), and dangerous job. I think anyone who is willing to put their life on the line to protect others, even as a career in exchange for money, is someone to be thankful for. On the other hand, when did getting a ticket for 5mph over become "protect and serve" or minor traffic violations for things such as not wearing a seatbelt become constitutional? I know that's more so legislative side of things, but still applies to LEO. It's a tough position for me because I support officers (the good ones) 100% on the individual side of things, but also have issues with them overall. I think officers are often put "above the law" but officers are also heavily preyed upon and targeted, which puts pressure on those same officers performing their duties that do benefit society. I'm grateful to have police but often wonder what home is being broken into, or car being smash and grabbed, or property being vandalized while an officer sits on the side of the road speed trapping looking for funding for the police department.

I know many officers, and the vast majority are trying to do the right thing, but also, I hate the perception that LEO is "there to protect us" and there's this public opinion that they are responsible to do so... and that I can't have the same responsibility to protect myself because I'm not LEO. Which I think is the problem. When you give someone the responsibility to protect you, people think it removes the responsibility for them to protect themselves... that's stupid. Why can officers walk freely armed more so than the citizen? Why are government employees given more rights with guns when the 2A was specific for citizens having the same capabilities as the government in protection FROM the government (2A is not about general gun ownership and self protection, but I digress...)? I think the concept of LEO should be there to aid in the private citizen protecting themselves, and far more power should be granted to the citizen to do so. There's NO one that will have the same drive and dedication to protect my family as I would. Now I not saying I'd have the same capability to do so, but I'm a firm believer in police show up after the fact.

I think some of the fallout from the "I can't breathe" movement has opened up to police both being vilified unjustly but also providing needed oversight, too.

Much of my issues are powers given to police by government officials, officers and officials that abuse them, and the lack of my ability to retaliate. The thought of an officer treating my wife the way some of these officers treat women (whether deservedly not) and the fact being that if I intervened there's a chance I'm risking my life to do so. So the "just sit there and take it and do what the officer says" mentality is garbage, but having that respect for the individual I am rarely anything but Johnny be Good during onduty interactions with officers because I know they deal with a lot of bullshit people and I don't need to contribute to that. But... I can see it only taking that one cop that goes past the line if my rights where I could see myself in trouble. It's a very weird thought process.



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[Sasquatch]

I do not understand why my background with ICE, under ERO would make much of a difference. To clarify, that’s a year and a half AFTER training. I came into the fold with an Associate’s in CJ, I wanted to be a game warden, but while I was working as a Detention Officer for ICE, I was encouraged to make the step up into field operations, and a good word was put in for me by a person that was a career liaison between the private sector and the government in regard to holding and detaining Illegal immigrants (mostly criminals of other nature that are held for a sentence then deported). After being accepted, passing the EQIP background check, going through training, passing the PEB, having to be examined for the body composition test, running, benching, reaching and ultimately doing just good enough, I made it in.

I absolutely don’t understand why this is pertinent, I also don’t understand why the Rant and Rave section is taken this seriously. I honestly thought that there might be one person here that might not be on either extreme, but I guess that’s not so. I think I’ll just lurk on here, the engagement of differing opinions is just as echo-chambery as Reddit or any other forum. I take responsibility for being as inflammatory as I was, but seriously, this is the Rant forum.

God bless.

Because it goes to credibility - when someone comes in saying they're a former LEO but is vague about it, especially when using a long title like "federal law enforcement operator" - had you left it as "I was federal law enforcement" it wouldn't sound as try-hard or wannabe as "federal law enforcement operator" because of the gym-bro-bro-vet-tactical-ted "operator" on the end. Saying "I worked for ICE" sounds less douchey and more credible. How you present yourself matters more in terms of being taken seriously, honestly.

As far as echo-chamber goes, there's a lot of guys on here that don't like cops, some outright hate them, and a lot of us are either supportive of LE, middle of the road (I'd say most), or more than a few are active / retired cops from local to state to federal as well. But to just come out swinging with "I hate cops" on THIS forum is likely to be met as either a straight up troll, or of someone that hasn't taken the temperature of the room at least.

This is a great forum to have discussions, and taking what you've said at face value that you were indeed federal LE that left because you hated how the job turned - more than one of us has asked you for suggestions on how to make it better, but you've not yet offered any up. To take a cop out of "why take it seriously, this is rants and raves" is saying you just wanted to scream you hate cops, and not have an actual discussion. Goes back to old man shouting at clouds.

Do you genuinely hate police, or the mission, the culture, the perception, or specific things that they do? Do you want to abolish LE and it become a free for all? Do you want people to be totally responsible for their own safety and security, as it was prior to police even existing? Do you want a reactionary police force? Privatized for-hire police? What would you change?

Personally I hate a lot of the mission of various police agencies, especially Federal agencies. Honestly I don't think 99% of federal LE agencies should exist. I don't think their missions should exist. I personally would push 99% of investigations upon local / state LE agencies, and federal LE would be limited to roles of executive protection, working with local LE on interstate cases for fugitive recovery / extradition matters, liasing with agencies across state lines (while the bulk of the work is handled locally), and securing our borders - which is a mission that should done in conjunction with the individual states and not keep the states out of it, as the international border is also a state border, and the state sees the actual burden of illegal immigration more than the federal government does.

Personally, I hate the ATF, but the handful of ATF agents I've met have been OK, if a little douchey. Met some FBI agents that were chill, some were nerds. The coolest, easist going feds I've ever dealt with were US Marshals. Of all of them - the Marshal Service is the only one I think should exist, and the handful of duties that I personally think feds should be involved in could be entirely handled by that branch along with CBP.

To that end, I also think that 99% of federal laws need struck down, and left to the states to handle, but I digress.

As far as local LE agencies go, I typically support their mission to ensure safer communities and do believe the majority could use better, continual education and believe we should properly fund it. No other governmental role has nearly the broad array of responsibilities and duties, nor handles the broad array of situations that police handle - everything from dealing with serving civil papers to criminal investigation, interdiction of drugs, responding as primary on aggressive phych patients in crisis, to dealing with violent felons and everything between.

I do think it could benefit officers spending 1/10 to 1/4 of their time off the street, doing constant continued education / physical training because it would ultimately make them safer - safer when going hands on with suspects, safer from health problems like high blood pressure / stroke / heart attack, better at at other various duties and specialties. But that does come at a cost - it requires more bodies, more training pay, and more facilities. But it would no doubt increase the quality of cops in our communities.

Big agencies with specialty units like full time SWAT have their officers spending a huge part of their on-duty days training, yet patrol cops get only a few hours of in-service training a year comparatively, despite patrol cops being the front line, first point of contact for almost everything along with backing up the specialty units. A few hours a year isn't going to be helpful with unarmed combatives and arrest control tactics - its something needing regular training. We've all seen dash cam / body cam / World Star cam footage of out of shape cops, or cops that just can't fight having a hell of a time controlling someone they should have no problem overpowering and shit going badly for one or both involved parties. That's something that can be fixed.

We've also seen cops taht just have shit attitudes and poor communication skills - that too can be fixed, and it can be weeded out through the selection and FTO process, though some might just get lazy and complacent in their careers and their desire and ability to de-escalate with words goes to shit. I will say that from my own first hand experience, along with witnessing numerous uses of force - those who are good at de-escalating with words, and those who can actually grapple and fight tend do be better at their jobs, and that's just coming from a healthcare security monkey (hands on, not observe & report shit.) The ones who can't actually communicate or fight, or won't fight when the time comes are the ones who make shit worse - escalating unnecessarily, and putting everyone else's safety at risk. Regular training ala role play scenarios and partner exercises and sparring would benefit all involved there, and probably actually reduce the number of injuries sustained by officers and suspects alike.

There are so many aspects of the job a cop has that we, the citizens, expect them to do perfectly yet they have to hone those skills on the job, in the real world not the classroom or range. We - the citizens - need to realize that for our police that serve our communities to do their jobs better, and safer it comes with costs.

That's not even touching on the mental health aspect of the job - you have to pass a psych test to get the job, and maybe to come back to duty after a lethal force encounter - but regular pysch assessment is not a thing in most places in the US, and there's still a big stigma about seeking mental health help or going to therapy. Same with the military - and its no wonder that the suicide rate among police officers and veterans is as high as it is, when the culture for so long has been 'shut up, suck it up and move on' - everything is great, until its not and then someone eats their gun.

Some of these cops that wind up abusing the citizens are probably suffering burn out or emotional problems, brought on by the job or at least exacerbated by it, which maybe could be detected and managed with regular mental health screenings and access to therapists. Some agencies now pay officers to regularly go, some are doing annual psych evals - but most are not. I'll say this - working in a busy trauma center the horrific shit I witnessed or had to personally be involved in on the daily will get to you. Ratcheting that up to what a cop, EMT, or hose dragger sees in the field its very understandable how they could develop problems.

If you think law enforcement is broken, then you should be able to see a fix or fixes for the problem, or admit that fixing is possible at least. If you just think law enforcement is unnecessary, you may or may not change your mind. It just doesn't serve a purpose to come in to a discussion forum, announce you hate cops and that's that unless you just wanted to troll for reactions - not that trolling is not a fun sport sometimes. I am probably not the only one that sees the hilarity that a fed comes to a gun forum to troll. Once a fed, always a fed. You just had the kindness to announce yourself as a fed

 

[Sasquatch]

Why can officers walk freely armed more so than the citizen? Why are government employees given more rights with guns when the 2A was specific for citizens having the same capabilities as the government in protection FROM the government (2A is not about general gun ownership and self protection, but I digress...)? I think the concept of LEO should be there to aid in the private citizen protecting themselves, and far more power should be granted to the citizen to do so. There's NO one that will have the same drive and dedication to protect my family as I would. Now I not saying I'd have the same capability to do so, but I'm a firm believer in police show up after the fact.

I think some of the fallout from the "I can't breathe" movement has opened up to police both being vilified unjustly but also providing needed oversight, too.

This - 100%. It is asinine that we've created this tiered system. Citizens at large should be able to carry anything and anywhere that any government employee can, with few exceptions. If the gov't wants machine guns, cool - so long as they're freely available to the public as well (and I don't mean the current system, I mean not regulated any more heavily than a semi-auto or a single shot rifle is). Gov't wants magazine bans? Not cool with that - but if gov't wants to limit how many rounds in MY magazine, the cops should be limited to the same.

I'm still annoyed at Texas' implementation of permitless carry, and hope that it gets rectified and the tiered system is dismantled to the point that permitless or permitted - we can all carry in the same places, in the same manner as the other, and its annoying that cops can carry where we cannot, legally - like in hospitals, stadiums, and K-12 schools. All places where violent criminals have shooting galleries of largely unarmed potential victims.

 

[V-Tach]

LOL.. this place is an echo chamber? Not freaking hardly..........

Many, many ongoing threads to prove otherwise....

 

[ShmeatDealer]

I've been known to just drive slowly up to an officer. (DPS, Game warden, Deputy, etc.)
Window already down. Hands on the wheel, in plain sight.
I ask "are you a Christian? ".
I've always gotten an affirmative answer.
I ask if they will pray with me and just keep their eyes open.
Then we pray for them, their family at home an all those under their watch that day.
May their day be boring and the roads and communities safe.

We all need help and someone who cares.

I hope and pray for our country, state and each other.

Can you just, like, remove my account all together?

 

[glenbo]

Just my humble and un-asked for opinion, but Homeland Security should have been named Homeland Suppression for what they really do. And to finish, Homeland Security = BATFE = petrified dog turds.

 

[ShmeatDealer]

ICE under potato joe............

Barely.

 

[Tblack89]

Can you just, like, remove my account all together?

Why don’t you try to have some serious conversations and get to know some of the people here before throwing a mantrum and quitting? You might learn some shit or maybe even contribute something useful.

 

[General Zod]

Can you just, like, remove my account all together?

The admins have been known to grant that wish from time to time...you're not the first one who didn't like the way a discussion he started went.

 

[ShmeatDealer]

Buuuttt you picked the wrong topic for this forum. Most of us here respect LE and know that the majority of them are doing their job to the best of their ability.
To say you hate cops is like saying you hate all black people because one broke into your car.

Not at all. Black people are just human beings, like all human beings, the smallest group of us is not representative of us all. Cops are statistically monsters more often than not, and they chose to take an oath that separates them from the rest of humanity. I’m turning hard away from civility, cops aren’t people anymore to me.

 

[General Zod]

Cops are statistically monsters more often than not,

Let's see some numbers to back up that claim. Otherwise you're just trolling...and badly.

 

[Sasquatch]

Can you just, like, remove my account all together?

@benenglish can help you with that, he has before for others who have asked. There's always the self-delete option, IIRC.

I guess you came looking for an anti-government echo chamber and didn't find what you want. That kinda reeks of fed, and not "former" fed but glow in the dark, 5.11 polo and Stryke pants and Oakley glasses wearing, the "lets do crimes together, fellow citizen" type fed.

 

[Sasquatch]

 

[ShmeatDealer]

Why don’t you try to have some serious conversations and get to know some of the people here before throwing a mantrum and quitting? You might learn some shit or maybe even contribute something useful.

The conversation just goes one way and I’m strawmanned every angle, can’t be any points worth reading, it’s all just “Muh wife’s boyfriend is a cop and he’s a nice guy ”, “But law and order can only be maintained by a labor class placed on a pedestal”, “Hating cops is like hating OTHER GROUP that has nothing in common with cops”, “If you call cops you can’t criticize them”, “but but, Cops have never wronged me! They’re great”

I’ve said I don’t hate every individual cop, more so the culture of and around cops and the mentality that sworn Law Officers have where they are also, somehow, rebels against tyranny. I could go on for days about how I respect the profession, I could post pictures of my receipts of donations to the TFOF, but you people will only accept a recall of belief, a submission of will, and frankly, I expect nothing else of the Police Mind.

I will say this again, the entire foundation of our idea of police and the way they operate is flawed, the fact that these people swear and oath, entails that they MUST betray their fellow Americans, or they MUST betray their oaths, neither of which are a moral decision, I say this as someone that has made such a decision.

ALSO, if you are pro gun and pro police then you are contradicting yourself, Police are a tool of oppression and tyranny, their existence alone is used to remove gun rights, it’s in the same vein as the libtard idea that you do not need guns, as the class of help will defend you from wrongdoers. Which way, freedom fighter? Are you fighting for freedom, or fighting freedom?

 

[DaBull]

There are other forums that will be receptive to posts that paint the majority of cops as monsters. I don't know where they are...but if you live near Portland or New York or some other Deep Blue City, some ANTIFA or BLM member can assist.

 

[General Zod]

The conversation just goes one way and I’m strawmanned every angle, can’t be any points worth reading, it’s all just “Muh wife’s boyfriend is a cop and he’s a nice guy ”, “But law and order can only be maintained by a labor class placed on a pedestal”, “Hating cops is like hating OTHER GROUP that has nothing in common with cops”, “If you call cops you can’t criticize them”, “but but, Cops have never wronged me! They’re great”

I’ve said I don’t hate every individual cop, more so the culture of and around cops and the mentality that sworn Law Officers have where they are also, somehow, rebels against tyranny. I could go on for days about how I respect the profession, I could post pictures of my receipts of donations to the TFOF, but you people will only accept a recall of belief, a submission of will, and frankly, I expect nothing else of the Police Mind.

I will say this again, the entire foundation of our idea of police and the way they operate is flawed, the fact that these people swear and oath, entails that they MUST betray their fellow Americans, or they MUST betray their oaths, neither of which are a moral decision, I say this as someone that has made such a decision.

ALSO, if you are pro gun and pro police then you are contradicting yourself, Police are a tool of oppression and tyranny, their existence alone is used to remove gun rights, it’s in the same vein as the libtard idea that you do not need guns, as the class of help will defend you from wrongdoers. Which way, freedom fighter? Are you fighting for freedom, or fighting freedom?

Blah blah blah blah back up your claims with numbers. Show us that "cops are statistically monsters more often than not" or you're just talking out your ass. And stop trying to lecture us on what you've decided we should believe. How fucking arrogant.

 

[13centkiller]

Oakley glasses wearing,

Damniit man!!!! I love my Oakleys!!! They are polarized and great for fishing. You are giving me a complex!!!!

 

[ShmeatDealer]

@benenglish can help you with that, he has before for others who have asked. There's always the self-delete option, IIRC.

I guess you came looking for an anti-government echo chamber and didn't find what you want. That kinda reeks of fed, and not "former" fed but glow in the dark, 5.11 polo and Stryke pants and Oakley glasses wearing, the "lets do crimes together, fellow citizen" type fed.

Again with the strawman. I dislike the institution of police, so I MUST also hate the government. Get real.

I came here to sell some shit and share my opinion, like the forum demands. My mistake.

 

[General Zod]

Again with the strawman. I dislike the institution of police, so I MUST also hate the government. Get real.

I came here to sell some shit and share my opinion, like the forum demands. My mistake.

You shared your opinion. Then got pissy when nobody agreed with you. Still waiting for you to prove that "cops are statistically monsters more often than not". Show your work, please.

 

[Younggun]

, cops aren’t people anymore to me.

I’ve said I don’t hate every individual cop, more so the culture of and around cops