Concealed Draw (Without one in the Chamber and with on in the chamber)

[#1gunner]

Non chambered here. Id rather know I will never have a ND than to ever have it happen, although rare and probably wont. Ask yourself has it ever happened and the answer would be yes. Ill take myself out of that equation and know im more protected having a firearm on me and taking that one extra second than not having one at all.

 

[Greg_TX]

Don't let our years of experience get in the way of your wild theories.

I'm willing to listen, and even change my thinking, or did you miss post #30?

 

[Greg_TX]

Is the shirt somehow going to pull the trigger? Performing the actions you describe will be slower with only one hand, but won't increase the risk of a ND. The shirt is not going to pull the trigger while you draw the weapon.

The shirt won't pull the trigger, but if the gun gets snagged on the way out then it would seem possible that your grip could shift. No matter... just a wild theory I came up with.

 

[ROGER4314]

The post that caught my eye was by TXI. The man has obviously seen violence.

I have also seen violence....lots of it.....years of it. You may call upon that firearm to save your life. When the time comes, it will probably be dark, your footing will be uneven, there may be broken glass, gravel or rocks under foot. You will be confused, under tremendous stress and scared shitless.

You'll probably be outnumbered, experience auditory exclusion, and be pissing down your leg. Anything that CAN go wrong, will go wrong. It's your job to cut through all of the crap, make a decision that will change lives forever and do what you can to preserve your life and the lives of people that you love.

Carry loaded and chambered or leave the gun at home and use it as a paperweight. You won't have time to screw around and the bad guys won't grant you a time out to get your act together. The other options are just silly.

Flash

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

The point of my question was this: Every draw I've seen demonstrated uses the off hand to clear the shirt and the other to draw. If the hand is there for the shirt, it seems it would also be available to work the slide. But, assuming it isn't, I would think that trying to untuck a shirt, get it out of the way, then draw, would somewhat increase the chance of an AD if the shirt gets in the way and the other hand can't help. Please don't read this as an argument against carrying chambered, and carrying empty adds one more step to a problem you already have, but I think the shirt question is relevant to the discussion of how safe it is to be chambered.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass, but rather pointing out that we have to adapt and improvise. There's no perfect solution to every problem. If you're wearing an open-front cover garment, such as a bowling-type shirt, jacket, etc., you'll sweep the garment out of the way with your shooting hand. The extended pinky goes between your body and the garment, and sweeps the garment out of the way. There's no need to use the support hand. Other concealment methods will require a little improvisation. It's always a good idea to practice two hand and one hand draws with any carry method. There are no guarantees that you'll have two available hands.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Non chambered here. Id rather know I will never have a ND than to ever have it happen, although rare and probably wont. Ask yourself has it ever happened and the answer would be yes. Ill take myself out of that equation and know im more protected having a firearm on me and taking that one extra second than not having one at all.

I've carried with a round chambered for over a decade and have never hand an ND. Carrying with an empty chamber is decidedly safer, but for whom? You, or the bad guy?

 

[Younggun]

The shirt won't pull the trigger, but if the gun gets snagged on the way out then it would seem possible that your grip could shift. No matter... just a wild theory I came up with.

If your trigger finger is properly indexed ,which should come naturally to anyone who practices safe gun handling, there is no way you will pull the trigger because your grip shifts.

Why try to rationalize irrational thinking.




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[coboblack]

One question, though - if you only have one hand to work with (hopefully the one where the gun is), what are the chances of your shirt fouling the draw if you can't move it out of the way?

This actually happens to me, it took about another tenth of a second to re adjust and lift the shirt. so about a 2 tenth of a second problem when this happens. If you watch at

Practicing Drawing My Glock 23 (Most without a round chamber and a few with one chambered) - YouTube

You will see me draw, then at when my daughter says "action", I draw, and miss my shirt once, and have to attempt to pull my shirt up twice

 

[coboblack]

The post that caught my eye was by TXI. The man has obviously seen violence.

I have also seen violence....lots of it.....years of it. You may call upon that firearm to save your life. When the time comes, it will probably be dark, your footing will be uneven, there may be broken glass, gravel or rocks under foot. You will be confused, under tremendous stress and scared shitless.

You'll probably be outnumbered, experience auditory exclusion, and be pissing down your leg. Anything that CAN go wrong, will go wrong. It's your job to cut through all of the crap, make a decision that will change lives forever and do what you can to preserve your life and the lives of people that you love.

Carry loaded and chambered or leave the gun at home and use it as a paperweight. You won't have time to screw around and the bad guys won't grant you a time out to get your act together. The other options are just silly.

Flash

Your body will react how its trained to, whether for footbal, jiu-jitsu, drawing a pistol or shooting a target. Like I said, I know officers who've died because they made a habit of picking up magazines at the range so in a fire fight, instead of ducking for cover, the picked up their magazines and got shot. If you train to draw and chamber a round, you will do it, even while scare, half unconcious, walking on unsure footing or any other scenario. I speak from experience. You fight like you train.

 

[TundraWookiee]

Your body will react how its trained to, whether for footbal, jiu-jitsu, drawing a pistol or shooting a target. Like I said, I know officers who've died because they made a habit of picking up magazines at the range so in a fire fight, instead of ducking for cover, the picked up their magazines and got shot. If you train to draw and chamber a round, you will do it, even while scare, half unconcious, walking on unsure footing or any other scenario. I speak from experience. You fight like you train.

If you've made up your mind then why did you bother asking us? No point in me repeating all of the other factors that come into play.

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[TheRealT-Dawg]

i carry chamber loaded. for some reason i never felt the "fear" of carrying chamber loaded that some people feel (not trying to sound tough or anything). My POV on this subject: I personally feel more comfortable carrying my gun as topped of as possible(1 in chamber and full mag). Ive also sided with this option because of the "tactical" side of the house in terms of technique and, not to mention, thats how ive trained myself these past years... to draw and press the trigger. Personally to draw, rack and then shoot is one less thing i dont want to have to worry about training... im open to all options but in the end ill stick to what I FEEL is more useful to me. Also, ive practice numerous drills that involve you drawing and shooting one-handed, including shooting from retention before punching out with both hands... and, again, i practiced those techniques while chambered in the first place, so i dont want to have to retrain my body to always rack the slide from a holster draw to shoot... I try to keep CONSISTANCY with all the things i learned across the board. Another thing, i really dont fear the gun shooting me for some odd reason, because 1) the safety rules and safty dicipline has been drilled in my head for so long that its muscle-memory to NOT touch that trigger until ready to shoot. 2) i make sure my gun is in tip top condition and of good quality, so i feel even more confident in it not shooting my leg while holstered. And 3) i make sure i have a GOOD holster to begin with. Why spend all that money on a nice gun only to shove it in a shitty holster that can be detrimental to your saftey? A quality Holster (and belt) is just as important as your gun... effectively making this a "system" rather than just a gun.

But in the end man, its all personal preference and what you are comfotable with... as long as you train that way and keep consistancy
"Practice how you would play" as the saying goes!

 

[JADB]

The post that caught my eye was by TXI. The man has obviously seen violence.

I have also seen violence....lots of it.....years of it. You may call upon that firearm to save your life. When the time comes, it will probably be dark, your footing will be uneven, there may be broken glass, gravel or rocks under foot. You will be confused, under tremendous stress and scared shitless.

You'll probably be outnumbered, experience auditory exclusion, and be pissing down your leg. Anything that CAN go wrong, will go wrong. It's your job to cut through all of the crap, make a decision that will change lives forever and do what you can to preserve your life and the lives of people that you love.

Carry loaded and chambered or leave the gun at home and use it as a paperweight. You won't have time to screw around and the bad guys won't grant you a time out to get your act together. The other options are just silly.

Flash

This.

 

[ROGER4314]

If you've made up your mind then why did you bother asking us? No point in me repeating all of the other factors that come into play.

In the OP, you wanted to discuss different sides of this option yet you reject all input and experience and now state that you are fully experienced and know that your techniques are correct. It sounds like you are trying to persuade us that your way is the best way.

You failed in that.

Flash

 

[Gramps]

If you've made up your mind then why did you bother asking us? No point in me repeating all of the other factors that come into play.

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Word.

 

[Renegade]

Carry loaded and chambered or leave the gun at home and use it as a paperweight.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner of the most retarded statement in this thread.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Whatever you decide just train and carry consistently.



But...of course...my 2 cents....

Having been around and used guns regularly for decades I've never had a ND. I appendix carry with a round in the pipe w/o worry. Guns are dangerous by design, otherwise they wouldn't be useful.

The safety is between your ears. Not a single one of the 4 rules of gun safety have anything to do with the device itself. Nothing about trigger weight, safeties, one in the pipe vs not, etc. If you follow all 4 rules its impossible to have a ND hurt someone.


You've wrote so much on body control I stopped reading. You can probably figure out how to train your finger to stay off the trigger.

 

[ROGER4314]

the most retarded statement in this thread.

It was ordered that we stop trashing each other. If you don't agree with me, that is your choice. If you want to get ugly.....I could do that too, then we'll be right back in the craphole we had before......................... Then the ban hammer will fall.

Stop the personal attacks. You can disagree and do it with courtesy and mutual respect.

Flash

 

[TX0303]

NDs are not caused by a round in the chamber, they are caused by negligence. I would bet that the NDs you heard about in the news are from people not using a holster.
As for carrying empty, think of the George Zimmerman case. If you are on the ground in a fight, there's no way for you to be able to rack the slide. And before the fight started, there was no reason to chamber a round either.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Guys, please drop the personal attacks.

What we are really talking about here is self-confidence or a lack thereof. Confidence in our abilities, confidence in the mechanical designs and safeties in the gun.

 

[coboblack]

If you've made up your mind then why did you bother asking us? No point in me repeating all of the other factors that come into play.

In the OP, you wanted to discuss different sides of this option yet you reject all input and experience and now state that you are fully experienced and know that your techniques are correct. It sounds like you are trying to persuade us that your way is the best way.

You failed in that.

Flash

No, you are misinterpreting it. I'm asking you guys all the questions I can possibly think of, and the reasons for them because I want to hear all of your rebuttals. Its how I truly learn both sides, it forces me to think of all the scenarios and pros and cons and by me asking I hope to hear yours. To be honest, most of what you guys have said, has me leaning more for one in the chamber but with a good holster. Thats why I asked for advice on a good IWB conceal holster for the Glock 23 that is safe for keeping one in the chamber.

Please don't misinterpret my questions and scenarios. I like to discuss things, and I learn by discussing in a debate fashion. Don't take it as an argument or that I've made up my mind on anything. Ive said numerous times I'm inexperienced, open minded and will make my final decision after going to my ECQC classes. I appreciate EVERYTHING you guys have said, so please keep it coming.