Concealed Draw (Without one in the Chamber and with on in the chamber)
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txinvestigator
TGT Addict
If you don't press the trigger you can't.
I appreciate the thought people are putting into all of this, but IMO this is a simple situation that doesn't have to be so difficult. I liken it to what I ALWAYS hear from parents about, "What if my kid gets a hold of the gun?!" The simple answer is don't let your kid get a hold of the gun! The solution to that particular question is at a minimum buy a $20-75 Gunvault-type quick access gun safe (if it's for a defensive gun). A child will NEVER get into that, problem solved.
So on the flip side with concealed carry. Here's the simple answers and solutions to achieve those:
Almost all modern handguns have at a minimum a firing pin safety: This makes it physically impossible for the gun to negligently discharge. The only thing that completely deactivates this is pulling the trigger. EVERY SINGLE PERSON needs to learn a proper trigger finger index.
Solution: Buy a good quality concealment holster that is rigid and completely protects the trigger guard. If carrying a 1911, get a holster that forces the safety into the on position when holstering, and if it's already on, the sweat guard actually holds the safety in the on position. Also, you NEED to develop a consistent trigger finger index in general as well as on the draw stroke. Never use gear, objects, or techniques as a safety buffer for lack of personal safety. Heck, buy a blue gun or an airsoft gun replica of your real gun and slowly practice drawstroke using it first. It's really not that big of a deal. People tend to over-think, and "what if" these things to death when it just doesn't have to be that difficult.
So on the flip side with concealed carry. Here's the simple answers and solutions to achieve those:
Almost all modern handguns have at a minimum a firing pin safety: This makes it physically impossible for the gun to negligently discharge. The only thing that completely deactivates this is pulling the trigger. EVERY SINGLE PERSON needs to learn a proper trigger finger index.
Solution: Buy a good quality concealment holster that is rigid and completely protects the trigger guard. If carrying a 1911, get a holster that forces the safety into the on position when holstering, and if it's already on, the sweat guard actually holds the safety in the on position. Also, you NEED to develop a consistent trigger finger index in general as well as on the draw stroke. Never use gear, objects, or techniques as a safety buffer for lack of personal safety. Heck, buy a blue gun or an airsoft gun replica of your real gun and slowly practice drawstroke using it first. It's really not that big of a deal. People tend to over-think, and "what if" these things to death when it just doesn't have to be that difficult.
There are rational fears, real risk based fears, and irrational fears that are feelings and sensitivities not based on facts or actual risks.
I believe it is an irrational fear, if you have a good holster, not to keep one in the chamber.
So, do you keep feeding that irrational fear or get beyond it and practice caring a gun the way when you most need it it'll be ready for you?
I acknowledged irrational fears, like fear of flying, or fear of spiders, is a real thing, we all have them, but it's stopping you from making rational decisions.
I believe it is an irrational fear, if you have a good holster, not to keep one in the chamber.
So, do you keep feeding that irrational fear or get beyond it and practice caring a gun the way when you most need it it'll be ready for you?
I acknowledged irrational fears, like fear of flying, or fear of spiders, is a real thing, we all have them, but it's stopping you from making rational decisions.
pvtsnowball82
Active Member
Check out the Raven Concealment Phantom. High quality holsters, excellent QA/QC, firm retention and full coverage of the trigger and trigger guard. I have no qualms carrying with one in the pipe using this holster. One note: it's better as an OWB holster. I've found, though, that it sits close to the body and is easy to conceal.
Shooter McGavin
Active Member
As mentioned before, I say do what's comfortable for you.
TundraWookiee
Scruffy Nerf Herder
I read a handful of responses and skimmed the rest but this is my opinion...carry "cocked and locked". If you carry with a round in the chamber, the only thing you have to worry about is a ND which can easily be avoided with a good holster that completely covers the trigger guard. You will also be in a much more higher cognitive state since you aren't in a life or death situation and able to think clearly about covering that trigger. Since most ND's are a result of reholstering this shouldn't be a major issue as your gun should remain holstered in public. If you were to carry without a round in the chamber, you now have to worry about whether you have that support hand free to rack the slide, whether you are going to have a feeding issue, whether you have time to rack the slide, and possibly wouldn't even rack it leaving you with an empty chamber or worse. The biggest issue to me would be a potential malfunction when feeding that first round...now you just added another couple of seconds to your draw depending on your training.
What you decide to do is ultimately your choice but with modern safety features, your gun is only going to go off if that trigger gets depressed. The only thing that would cause that trigger to go off is either failure to index your trigger finger, or lack of a trigger guard on your holster (or lack of a holster in many cases).
What you decide to do is ultimately your choice but with modern safety features, your gun is only going to go off if that trigger gets depressed. The only thing that would cause that trigger to go off is either failure to index your trigger finger, or lack of a trigger guard on your holster (or lack of a holster in many cases).
DoubleActionCHL
Well-Known
I personally believe if one is going to carry a semi-automatic handgun, it should be carried with a round in the chamber.
People often opt not to for various reasons; unrealistic expectations, lack of training/practice, lack of understanding of the mechanics of the firearm, etc.
I don't know what benchmark you're using in your draw/fire drills, but it's probably 1.5 seconds. Try this: Take your support hand out of the equation. Maybe you were injured by a knife or gunshot, or maybe you're carrying your small child or grandchild in your support arm.
Now, set your timer, draw on the beep, chamber a round and fire. How was your time?
Just something to think about...
People often opt not to for various reasons; unrealistic expectations, lack of training/practice, lack of understanding of the mechanics of the firearm, etc.
I don't know what benchmark you're using in your draw/fire drills, but it's probably 1.5 seconds. Try this: Take your support hand out of the equation. Maybe you were injured by a knife or gunshot, or maybe you're carrying your small child or grandchild in your support arm.
Now, set your timer, draw on the beep, chamber a round and fire. How was your time?
Just something to think about...
I currently carry with an empty chamber - your point above is enough to change my mind. I understand the other arguments, mainly that you can't assume your off hand won't be otherwise occupied at the time, but a misfeed (either because of Murphy's Law or not fully racking the slide while under extreme stress) seems like a more plausible hazard.
I think you've done a great job practicing the draw and cock move and have become respectably proficient at it. At least while standing at the ready knowing you are about to draw. I would say that you can draw and rack the slide faster than most people can draw, but since this isn't the old west, how quickly you draw is not as important as how accurately you engage your target who is shooting back at you.
One thing I know is how quickly excellent combat plans go out the window as soon as the first shot is fired. You can never rely on your enemy/opponent to do what you expect them to do, or act how you've trained for them to act. You're manuever looks fine on film, but try it while leaving a store with one hand full of grocery bags, the other hand holding onto the kid and walking with your mother, girlfriend, etc (you're not wearing a ring so I won't say wife). Now you've got to drop bags, shove loved ones to safety, then draw, cock and aim. During the next week, count how many times you've got at least one hand occupied doing just normal every day stuff that would slow down your method.
Of course the easy answer is, just carry without one in the chamber in a good holster. After you do that for a few weeks or months, and your pistol fails to jump out of the holster and try to shoot someone, or never goes "click" from it dry firing all by itself, or from any normal activities you happen to be doing, then this will all be a moot point because you'll have gained the confidence to carry it loaded.
One thing I know is how quickly excellent combat plans go out the window as soon as the first shot is fired. You can never rely on your enemy/opponent to do what you expect them to do, or act how you've trained for them to act. You're manuever looks fine on film, but try it while leaving a store with one hand full of grocery bags, the other hand holding onto the kid and walking with your mother, girlfriend, etc (you're not wearing a ring so I won't say wife). Now you've got to drop bags, shove loved ones to safety, then draw, cock and aim. During the next week, count how many times you've got at least one hand occupied doing just normal every day stuff that would slow down your method.
Of course the easy answer is, just carry without one in the chamber in a good holster. After you do that for a few weeks or months, and your pistol fails to jump out of the holster and try to shoot someone, or never goes "click" from it dry firing all by itself, or from any normal activities you happen to be doing, then this will all be a moot point because you'll have gained the confidence to carry it loaded.
I carry a Glock 23 with one in the chamber. I didn't at first, but after reading enough about the safety features, I became comfortable with it. One day my cousin ask me, "well when you carried a revolver did you keep the cylinder turned to an empty chamber?"
Main thing with the Glock and many new semi autos, if you do drop one or it happenes to fall ....don't try to catch it. It will not fire from hitting the ground , but can fire if you attempt to catch it by the trigger.
Like it's been said, you are better prepared than most if you even had it locked in your glove box.
Main thing with the Glock and many new semi autos, if you do drop one or it happenes to fall ....don't try to catch it. It will not fire from hitting the ground , but can fire if you attempt to catch it by the trigger.
Like it's been said, you are better prepared than most if you even had it locked in your glove box.
DoubleActionCHL
Well-Known
That all depends on how you're concealing, but what's the alternative? You simply have to figure it out and make it work.
The point of my question was this: Every draw I've seen demonstrated uses the off hand to clear the shirt and the other to draw. If the hand is there for the shirt, it seems it would also be available to work the slide. But, assuming it isn't, I would think that trying to untuck a shirt, get it out of the way, then draw, would somewhat increase the chance of an AD if the shirt gets in the way and the other hand can't help. Please don't read this as an argument against carrying chambered, and carrying empty adds one more step to a problem you already have, but I think the shirt question is relevant to the discussion of how safe it is to be chambered.
Don't let our years of experience get in the way of your wild theories.
I've been thinking about getting this for my Glock 36
What are yalls thoughts?
THE GLOCKTECH STORE - Standard MIC Holster Purchase
What are yalls thoughts?
THE GLOCKTECH STORE - Standard MIC Holster Purchase
Is the shirt somehow going to pull the trigger? Performing the actions you describe will be slower with only one hand, but won't increase the risk of a ND. The shirt is not going to pull the trigger while you draw the weapon.
TundraWookiee
Scruffy Nerf Herder
My solution is to practice a one handed draw during dry fire exercises. It adds a bit of time to you draw as you are either first pulling up your shirt if tucked in before moving for your gun, or hooking your thumb under and sweeping back the shirt if it isn't tucked in. The key is not allowing the tail of your shirt to get back away from your body where it can catch on the back of your slide. It's just another scenario that you would have to practice for like many other things.
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I have been carrying glocks on and off duty as Leo since 1989 ,and you will more likely shoot your self with a 1911, or a revolver than a glock. I get tired of the no safety crap and it will go off so easy because you had a bunch in your pants what a crock of shit. If you carry a simiauto with empty chamber you will not get a shot off accurately against a bad guy ,who will be carrying one in the chamber. Just carry rock if your afraid of a glock with one in the chamber because that's all you have if it's empty when you need it.
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