Breaking: Pending ATF Rule Change About Pistol Braces

[Dougw1515]

I'm sorry guys, but Coyote is just stating the truth and the obvious. Don't shoot the messenger for bringing the news.

And his statement of fact, doesn't hurt or help the cause. It's simply a statement.

I don't know if I'd call'em traitors but the comment was not helpful and certainly not necessary. Some folks get pleasure from playing the devils advocate and bringing discomfort to other folks for no apparent good reason except simply for the fact that "they can!" And so it is here. Nobody requested the information. It provides no benefit to folks on a GUN site. Maybe it's the desire to appear intelligent? If so -miserable fail.

 

[seeker_two]

I have limited use of my left arm. Don’t screw this up for us. Shut your traitor mouth.

I don't own one, but I have shot a few with the brace. Banning the brace would be in opposition to ADA, and I told the BATFE as much in my comment.

.....plus, whatever part of my body I choose to brace the brace against is my own business....not BATFE's.....

 

[Axxe55]

I don't know if I'd call'em traitors but the comment was not helpful and certainly not necessary. Some folks get pleasure from playing the devils advocate and bringing discomfort to other folks for no apparent good reason except simply for the fact that "they can!" And so it is here. Nobody requested the information. It provides no benefit to folks on a GUN site. Maybe it's the desire to appear intelligent? If so -miserable fail.

A statement of fact is neither hurtful or helpful. It's just what it is.

Trust me, I can say the same thing as Coyote did, and will. I'm not using it for a brace either. But, I'm on y'all's side and F**k the ATF!

ATF is trying to enforce a law, that doesn't exist in the first place. Last I checked, federal agencies don't legislate or make laws. That is exactly what they are trying to do in the case of the braces and SBR classifications.

And this is exactly the reason I keep stating that sending letters or emails, or calling the ATF to complain, is nothing more than a huge waste of time and energy. The time and energy needs to be spent calling our elected representatives, and legislators and getting this pushed for a court case where it can be decided, and laws made that clearly define what is illegal ,or legal, and not something determined by the ATF bureaucracy.

 

[Dougw1515]

A statement of fact is neither hurtful or helpful. It's just what it is.

Trust me, I can say the same thing as Coyote did, and will. I'm not using it for a brace either. But, I'm on y'all's side and F**k the ATF!

ATF is trying to enforce a law, that doesn't exist in the first place. Last I checked, federal agencies don't legislate or make laws. That is exactly what they are trying to do in the case of the braces and SBR classifications.

And this is exactly the reason I keep stating that sending letters or emails, or calling the ATF to complain, is nothing more than a huge waste of time and energy. The time and energy needs to be spent calling our elected representatives, and legislators and getting this pushed for a court case where it can be decided, and laws made that clearly define what is illegal ,or legal, and not something determined by the ATF bureaucracy.

Different strokes for different folks. I operate on the "don't kick the dog" theory. Some folks like to tempt fate.

 

[Axxe55]

Different strokes for different folks. I operate on the "don't kick the dog" theory. Some folks like to tempt fate.

Personally, I think it's high time to start kicking the dog and kicking him hard and long!

The ATF is overstepping their authority on this, big time.

 

[Younggun]

It’s like driving up to a cop and saying “yeah, 99.9% of people are speeding and I am too. Whatcha gonna do about it?”

Go ahead and set yourself up for failure. The only shitty thing here is it sets everyone else up to. Extra Blue Falcon points if the media grabs your post for their hot story. (It’s happened before)


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[Axxe55]

It’s like driving up to a cop and saying “yeah, 99.9% of people are speeding and I am too. Whatcha gonna do about it?”

Go ahead and set yourself up for failure. The only shitty thing here is it sets everyone else up to. Extra Blue Falcon points if the media grabs your post for their hot story. (It’s happened before)


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The correct analogy would be the speed limit is 55 mph, and the cop decided he wants to start writing speeding tickets to everyone doing over 50 mph.

The cop doesn't get to set the law on what is speeding or not. His job is the enforce the traffic laws as they are set forth by legislation.

This is what the ATF is doing in regards to "braces".

 

[Coyote9]

Why would you say something like that out loud?

Apologies, some thoughts best left unspoken

 

[cycleguy2300]

Personally, I think it's high time to start kicking the dog and kicking him hard and long!

The ATF is overstepping their authority on this, big time.

Kick the dog hard enough and it leaves you the fück alone.

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[billtool]

Kick the dog hard enough and it leaves you the fück alone.

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There ya go!

 

[toddnjoyce]

..ATF is trying to enforce a law, that doesn't exist in the first place...

What ATF tried to do was to codify new regulation under their existing power granted by Congress.

While it may seemed pedantic however laws and regulations are two different things entirely.

 

[cycleguy2300]

What ATF tried to do was to codify new regulation under their existing power granted by Congress.

While it may seemed pedantic however laws and regulations are two different things entirely.

They are, but the bottom line is we have to abide by their regulations. It is Congress that should be writing the regs, if anyone and many are unconstitutional and shouldn't exist.

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[Younggun]

The correct analogy would be the speed limit is 55 mph, and the cop decided he wants to start writing speeding tickets to everyone doing over 50 mph.

The cop doesn't get to set the law on what is speeding or not. His job is the enforce the traffic laws as they are set forth by legislation.

This is what the ATF is doing in regards to "braces".

Not if congress granted them the authority to set the speed limit (constitutionally or not) and every just changed the calibration of their speedometer and went on about their business.


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[Younggun]

Kick the dog hard enough and it leaves you the fück alone.

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Yeah, tell me how that goes.


Problem with that is when you kick the dog it comes back with more and bigger dogs. Unless you’re willing and have the funds to go to SCOTUS and hope they kick the dog for you, or you plan on a full on shooting war with the dog and have an army to back you up...you won’t ever kick the dog hard enough for it to leave you alone. You’ll just piss it off.


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[Younggun]

They are, but the bottom line is we have to abide by their regulations. It is Congress that should be writing the regs, if anyone and many are unconstitutional and shouldn't exist.

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I totally agree.


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[Dougw1515]

Yeah, tell me how that goes.


Problem with that is when you kick the dog it comes back with more and bigger dogs. Unless you’re willing and have the funds to go to SCOTUS and hope they kick the dog for you, or you plan on a full on shooting war with the dog and have an army to back you up...you won’t ever kick the dog hard enough for it to leave you alone. You’ll just piss it off.


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Exactly!

 

[Sam Colt]

Y'all are thinking of cats.

 

[Axxe55]

It appears that Christmas is over with. Gone all that goodwill and peace towards man and all that nonsense.

 

[RoadRunner]

Agreed. I wonder how many here have donated to Perdue and Loeffler?

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I did.

 

[toddnjoyce]

They are, but the bottom line is we have to abide by their regulations...

True

...It is Congress that should be writing the regs, ...

That would be unconstitutional. Regulations (formally known as rules) are one of just a couple of ways the executive branch implements (or not) the laws that Congress writes. While there’s effectively more to it than that, rules allow executive agencies much more flexibility (for good or bad) to implement a law. They are also easier (for good or bad) to change or rescind. The good news across all that is if the law is unconstitutional, so are all implementing rules. The law can also be constitutional while the implementing rules aren’t.


When Congress tries to write a law that is regulatory in nature, you end up with crazy shit. Specific to this topic, GCA 68 is a regulatory law that birthed FOPA, the Brady Act, and NICS Improvement Act. NFA is a similar law that was written to be regulatory in nature. See how well any of those worked out?

Alternatively, Congress could have written a simple law to amend the US Code to state something along the lines of “federal agencies shall only have the power to regulate firearms in a manner consistent with the Constitution”.