Austin man sentenced for lawful ftf sale ???

[zembonez]

Surely there MUST be more to this story than we are hearing. This is bullsh*t.

Funny how different these stories appear when you have all of the facts.

 

[MR Redneck]

Alright people!
Here's the problem!! Way out there in Arizona, The fuckin feds are suing the state because Arizona's government wants the LE to ask people of suspicion for ID to prove their not Illegals!!!
NO WAY, says the worthless feds, we cant have yall doing that kinda shit in Arizona!!! Were going to sue your ass's and make shit worse on all yall!!! Were the Feds, we can make up the rules as we go!!
Now down here in Texas, some ol guy ID's some dude that looks like he just fell out of the Mexican Sky to make sure he aint an illegal... He has a Texas DL, so what do ya do? Well the first thing you do is think, if he's illegal he shouldnt have a Texas DL, right??
Well hell no that aint good enough!! your suspose to be some kind of psyichic or somethin!!!

Now the big problem is, the dumbass Feds want us Texans to check immigration status to sell a gun, but at the same time their sueing Arizona for doing just that!!! Arizona's being Racist they say, but down here in Texas were expected to do what their sueing Arizona for.
The Feds are the criminal!! Its the Feds that are suspose to keep the illegal mexicans out of here, not us!!!

 

[San Antone RR]

I don't see it as being psychic at all. 3 guys approach me and ask to buy a firearm; the main party that wants it has no ID and says so on multiple occasions. (There is a LENGTHY and HEATED thread on ID vs not to ID in this forum already Mr. Red and I came down on the sde of not ID'ing). However, Mr. Copeland did ask and therefore had a reasonable certainty of knowing the illegal wanted the firearm.
Mr. Copeland responded to the question of why he broke the gun show rules with a very flippant remark that I took to mean "You try to stop me." Guess what. They stopped him inafuckinghurry. He is now a convicted felon and will carry that with him.
I am a big fan of Constitutional Carry, but I am not gonna become roomates with Bubba and Tyrese in The Fed to prove a point. My butt says exit only and I intend it to stay that way. If this situation were to happen to me, there simply wouldn't have been a sale. My choice as the owner of the firearm. He made the wrong choice.

Steve

 

[MR Redneck]

I don't see it as being psychic at all. 3 guys approach me and ask to buy a firearm; the main party that wants it has no ID and says so on multiple occasions. (There is a LENGTHY and HEATED thread on ID vs not to ID in this forum already Mr. Red and I came down on the sde of not ID'ing). However, Mr. Copeland did ask and therefore had a reasonable certainty of knowing the illegal wanted the firearm.
Mr. Copeland responded to the question of why he broke the gun show rules with a very flippant remark that I took to mean "You try to stop me." Guess what. They stopped him inafuckinghurry. He is now a convicted felon and will carry that with him.
I am a big fan of Constitutional Carry, but I am not gonna become roomates with Bubba and Tyrese in The Fed to prove a point. My butt says exit only and I intend it to stay that way. If this situation were to happen to me, there simply wouldn't have been a sale. My choice as the owner of the firearm. He made the wrong choice.

Steve

I wouldnt have sold it either, but I cant convict a man for making extra effort to decide if the man was a legal citizen. The fact that he had a DL would have been the biggest problem for me to convict the seller.

 

[San Antone RR]

I never said I would have voted to convict. Hell, we would have still in the jury room and I would have had 11 people wishing I was dead. He still made a wrong choice.

 

[ROGER4314]

Nothing was to be gained by the ATF over busting one Hispanic man for an illegal gun purchase. If a regular guy was busted for an improper sale, we all run, hide and get intimidated by that scum. He will probably prevail in defense but it will take years and a lot of money. Meanwhile, the rest of us shake with fear.

The IRS does that, too. They bust a grandmother over garage sale profits or a kid with a Kool Aid stand and the rest of us all get scared. That's BS but that's how they work.

Flash

 

[TheDan]

He says he was convicted by a "jury of his peers", his words, for knowingly participating in a straw-purchase; that is, knowingly selling to a person not illegible under state and federal law to purchase or possess a firearm.

Did he confess that he knew it was a straw purchase? If not, how can it be proven he knew it was a straw purchase? Also, I was under the impression that a straw purchase is illegal for the person making the purchase and the person the purchase is for. Not for the person selling.

 

[POF-USA]

is it considered a felon for the illegal after he bought the gun?

 

[Rum Runner]

"C.B. Copeland will be sentenced next week likely to a term in a federal prison. He tells us it wasn't because he was selling without an FFL, that wasn't mentioned during the trial. He says he was convicted by a "jury of his peers", his words, for knowingly participating in a straw-purchase; that is, knowingly selling to a person not illegible under state and federal law to purchase or possess a firearm."

While I initially thought this guy was being screwed....not so much now. #1) Apparently he shouldn't have sold the gun at all according to the policies of the show. and more importantly 2) A guy comes around twice and really wants a gun but has no ID, then on the third attempt you sell it to his buddy...come on you know you are taking part in a straw man.

 

[ROGER4314]

I witnessed what may have been a sting at a Pasadena gun show a while back. I was talking to a dealer friend at the gun show. A Hispanic man with marginal English skills said he was not a resident and did not have proper ID but he wanted to buy one of the guns. My friend advised him of the law and sent him away. A few minutes later, the guy returns with a Hispanic companion who says he will buy the gun for his friend. The dealer again advised him of the law and sent him packing. Could this have been a set up to get the dealer to make a "straw purchase" sale? Is this what happened to the man in the OP?

Flash

 

[Rum Runner]

MAybe, either way is was a straw man purchase and your friend was smart to say no.

 

[cuate]

Brothers, When the strength of man fails as it has for Paul Copeland's flimsy entraptment by uncouth persons and means, there is a power yielded to us for his benefit, it is called prayer...
And should you remember Mr. Copeland in that manner, you might also seek assistance in returning our Republic to its state B.O. (before obama)..

 

[OldFart81]

Wonder if a bill of sale such as below will protect the seller against illegals?

BILL OF SALE- FIREARM


I, ____________________, sell to ___________________ the following firearm.

Manufacturer________________________

Model_____________________________

Serial Number_______________________

Caliber_____________________________

Description__________________________

This firearm is legally owned by the seller until this bill of sale is signed. There are no guarantees or warranties on this firearm other than the standard factory warranty that may or may not be in effect.

The buyer listed below has identified himself to me or is known to me personally. The buyer, by act of signing this bill of sale, has stated that he/she is illegible under state and federal law to purchase or possess this firearm and assumes all responsibilities respecting proper ownership.

Seller________________________________

Seller Signature________________________


Seller TDL or CHL____________________________

Buyer________________________________

Buyer Signature________________________

Buyer TDL or CHL_____________________________





Date of sale____________________________

 

[Texasjack]

First, you spelled "eligible" as "illegible".

Signing such a document does not save you from 'straw purchases', which seems to be what the party involved in this thread did.

 

[MR Redneck]

The result of everything yall are talking about is our fault!!
Yes ours, because we allow this shit to happen but yet we do noting because it didnt happen to us.
Althow we dont like it, it still isnt our peoblem, or is it??
Here we have a community that understands the man sold a gun to some Mexican Dude. The Mexican Dude had a valid Texas Drivers License. Who's to contest him when he's got a DL??
The man was completely screwed over by the feds that should have kept the Illegal Mexican out of Texas in the first place! That judge should be stripped of all his authority because he has no clue what decentcy is!
I believe that every crime has a begining. If that Mexican was kept out of Texas then none of this would have ever happened. The feds that screwed a honest Texas Citizen should be the one behind bars!

 

[Partychief67]

The Feds really screwed the pooch for an "example" prosecution case. The water is so muddy in this case that they will do nothing but stir up a hornets nest of public opinion. The legal gray area is proving the mental intent of the seller, the fact that he was not an FFL dealer and the fact of the validity of the ID presented to him by the Mexican national. Whether or not the Mexican national was arrested, or deported after the fact is legally irrelevant for Mr. Copeland's case.

Is there a legal defense fund established anywhere towards Mr. Copeland's appeal? Is there an appeal planned?

I wish there was a way I could share this thread on Facebook!

 

[MR Redneck]

The Feds really screwed the pooch for an "example" prosecution case. The water is so muddy in this case that they will do nothing but stir up a hornets nest of public opinion. The legal gray area is proving the mental intent of the seller, the fact that he was not an FFL dealer and the fact of the validity of the ID presented to him by the Mexican national. Whether or not the Mexican national was arrested, or deported after the fact is legally irrelevant for Mr. Copeland's case.

Is there a legal defense fund established anywhere towards Mr. Copeland's appeal? Is there an appeal planned?

I wish there was a way I could share this thread on Facebook!

Im sure Mr. Copeland would love that.

 

[OldFart81]

First, you spelled "eligible" as "illegible".

Signing such a document does not save you from 'straw purchases', which seems to be what the party involved in this thread did.

Thanks for the spelling, didn't see that.....so, how do we protect ourselves if we want to sell a firearm Face to Face?

 

[MR Redneck]

Thanks for the spelling, didn't see that.....so, how do we protect ourselves if we want to sell a firearm Face to Face?

I guess we ask if they got a Texas Drivers License illegally!! Make sure the feds aint around because they seem to think its funny for a man to get in trouble for selling a gun to a wetback with a Texas DL. Maybe thats why they dont secure the borders! Just to have another way they can screw the citizens they should be helping.
Honestly, I dont think you can do anything to prevent the feds from screwing you blind.. Mr. Copelands case prooves that!!!

 

[Rum Runner]

This has nothing to do with an illegal using a TX drivers License. As far as I know, there has been nothing said about whether the guy who used the license is legal or illegal. There are some other issues, but the real issue is a "straw man" sale. The main issue is that Copeland sold a gun to person A knowing it was really going to person B. The easy way to protect yourself is by not being stupid and having ethics.