Austin man sentenced for lawful ftf sale ???

[mtaylor]

While I don't agree with the actions of the government in this case I do agree that this person should be held to a higher standard, if the information that he is a licensed dealer is correct. Even if he was selling a gun from his private collection I think he should have run the background check as if it were a gun from his inventory. But, opinions vary...

 

[Texasjack]

While I don't agree with the actions of the government in this case I do agree that this person should be held to a higher standard, if the information that he is a licensed dealer is correct. Even if he was selling a gun from his private collection I think he should have run the background check as if it were a gun from his inventory. But, opinions vary...

A higher standard than what? The federal government??

Instead of the dealer involved, that sale could have been made by ANY of us. If a bank clerk is presented with a forged ID, is she charged with robbing the bank because she cashed an illegal alien's check?

Agents were watching the whole thing and knew the guy was illegal. This was nothing more than a setup so they could have an excuse to close the gun show. It's an abuse of power that puts ALL of us at risk. I see all sorts of posts upset at various government activities, some with reason, some without. But this is something everybody should be upset about.

 

[RetArmySgt]

He was a private seller not an FFL i was still living in Austin with this happened and talked to the man myself outside the APD HQ the day of the protest against the PD and the ATF. Witnesses also stated that they saw the ATF agent talking with the buyer in the parking lot before the purchase took place. Before this happened the ATF and APD tryed to strong arm the event planners into shutting it down in "fear that illegals would by firearms".

 

[Texas1911]

This REAKS of a setup ... fucking bullshit laws. UGGHHHHH!

 

[rsayloriii]

Four crimes... being here illegally in the first place.


WTF, over...

5 ... Document forgery, or illegally obtained document (TX DL).

 

[rsayloriii]

This is some messed up misrepresentation of law enforcement.

That seems to be the norm of APD and Austin in general ...

 

[IXLR8]

Seems simple enough. The government does not want guns sold to Hispanics. It is very clear that unless you want to face jail time and legal defense for your actions, that you should not take the chance. Simple profiling should keep you out of any legal entanglement.

Since it nearly impossible for the layman to determine qualifications, and whether documents presented are forged, let all Hispanics fill out a 4473, and purchase through an FFL. It is obviously what the government wants, considering their actions.

Jail time or profiling? I will pick the latter.

 

[tweek]

Stuff like this needs to be dealt with in a political manner. Names should be drug out. The actions taken by the people involved need to be publicized. Make their professional lives miserable so that they either change their behavior or seek out a different line of work. Nothing violent, nothing harassing. Just simple embarrassment for embarrassing people.
The information is in the court records and other stuff can be obtained using FIOA requests.

 

[mtaylor]

A higher standard than what? The federal government??

Instead of the dealer involved, that sale could have been made by ANY of us. If a bank clerk is presented with a forged ID, is she charged with robbing the bank because she cashed an illegal alien's check?

Agents were watching the whole thing and knew the guy was illegal. This was nothing more than a setup so they could have an excuse to close the gun show. It's an abuse of power that puts ALL of us at risk. I see all sorts of posts upset at various government activities, some with reason, some without. But this is something everybody should be upset about.

He was a private seller not an FFL i was still living in Austin with this happened and talked to the man myself outside the APD HQ the day of the protest against the PD and the ATF. Witnesses also stated that they saw the ATF agent talking with the buyer in the parking lot before the purchase took place. Before this happened the ATF and APD tryed to strong arm the event planners into shutting it down in "fear that illegals would by firearms".

According to the news report link the man was a gun dealer, but of course, news sources are never wrong, LOL! Like I said, if the report that he was a dealer was correct....

As for a higher standard... yes, dealers are held to higher standards than the general public. As are bank tellers are held to a higher standard at spotting fake documents. They are trained to spot forgeries and counterfeit bills, etc. when the general public is not. With gun dealers it is a legal thing and with bank tellers it is a loss prevention thing, but both culminate from extra training beyond what the public is expected. So, IF he was a dealer he would have likely made more inquiries than a non dealer and could have picked up on any illegal intent prompting hem to run a background check, whether the gun was from his personal collection or not.

The whole thing boils down to what the prosecutors can convince a jury to do. Personally, if I were on the bench I would have set aside the verdict and set the man free with the apologies of the court. The general public cannot be expected to go beyond the codified laws to interrogate a purchaser. He merely needs to meet the minimum law for firearms trade.

 

[zembonez]

While I agree with Alan that this sounds pretty fishy, I will say that if this guy did not operate within the "law", he unfortunately will get to suffer the consequences. In this case it sure seems to be wrong.

 

[POF-USA]

On another board they said that the guy that sold the gun finished the transaction in the parking lot.
I don't know how to confirm that but, it would make a difference in the case as far as I'm concerned.

Has anyone else heard this?

By the way the illegal alien should have been charged.

edit: In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien

 

[POF-USA]

Judge Sparks sentenced Copeland on August 27 to six months confinement and 24 months of probation, and called Copeland "a liar" for not admitting guilt. The ATF confiscated Copeland’s entire gun collection and initiated forfeiture proceedings. Copeland was also fired from his job due to the indictment, and he would have lost his home to foreclosure, if not for his family stepping in to pay his mortgage while he serves his sentence.

Found this as well

 

[Wolfwood]

i need a vomit emoticon.
becaus ei jsut threw up in my mouth.


this is disgusting. and one of the reasons this country is going the way of mexico.

 

[WarmAK47]

So if a TX DL isn't proof enough, how can you ensure that a buyer is a legal TX resident?

 

[MR Redneck]

So if a TX DL isn't proof enough, how can you ensure that a buyer is a legal TX resident?

I might as well be the one to say this, so here goes!!
First, I printed this case info for my records. If I go to a gunshow or have a private transaction, I'll have a copy of this article with me.
I dont hardly ever sell a gun but for now on, Im doing something different!
If your Mexican, and your not a personal friend of mine and I dont know you. Then you aint buy Shit from me!!! Plain and simple! I will give that person a copy of this article and tell to hit the F***'n road! I wont even buy a gun from them if I dont know em!!
If they dont like it, then I will also give them the local feds phone number.
If I can get sent to prison for selling a gun to some asshole with a Texas DL then thats the way its going to be!!! It aint my fault the F***'n state of Texas keeps giving these illegal Assholes Drivers Lisence's!!! If I had it my way, evey damn illegal would be rounded up and shipped to the southern most edge of Mexico and dumped off!!!
The End!!!

 

[majormadmax]

Usually, when I see something this ridiculous, I get suspicious. Either there is only one side of the story being presented (and thus only selected information), or someone is fabricating or blowing certain facts out of proportion. I would like to see official documents as they relate to this case, as people are getting all worked up over what the press and what could be a biased web site are reporting. Very rarely do either do a good job of objectively reporting the truth...

I know it's fun for everyone to get emotional over this, and there's nothing wrong with that; but don't jump to conclusions without making an effort to know all the facts!

 

[MR Redneck]

Usually, when I see something this ridiculous, I get suspicious. Either there is only one side of the story being presented (and thus only selected information), or someone is fabricating or blowing certain facts out of proportion. I would like to see official documents as they relate to this case, as people are getting all worked up over what the press and what could be a biased web site are reporting. Very rarely do either do a good job of objectively reporting the truth...

I know it's fun for everyone to get emotional over this, and there's nothing wrong with that; but don't jump to conclusions without making an effort to know all the facts!

First of all, if that man really sold a gun to him knowing he was illegal, he would have got a whole lot more than 6 months.
I think the libtard feds wanted to make an example of someone no matter what the cost!

 

[mtaylor]

Here is another source that sheds a little more light on the store, and not in favor of Mr. Copeland.

From the TSRA


And the key points....

The gun show specifically notified each person entering the show that only licensed dealers would be allowed to sell guns and only after proper background checks. Policy of the show, not the law of course.....

The 'party' approached Mr. Copeland's table and the prospective purchaser *could not* produce valid identification. Mr. Copeland denied the sale and the party moved on.

The party returned at least twice more wanting to purchase the gun and Mr. Copeland refused at least once more.

The final time the part approached Mr. Copeland's table, *a different person in the party provided what appeared to be a valid Texas Drivers License* and so Mr. Copeland completed the sale to the third person.

Almost immediately after the sale the gun then changed hands to the person who originally wanted to purchase the gun.

It was because of this that I believe the jury convicted. The fact that the party made multiple attempts to purchase the gun, and Mr. Copeland should have realized that the gun would be purchased by the third party to be passed back to the original person. The fact that any of them were illegal aliens or non residents is irrelevant. The jury believed that Mr. Copeland should have realized that it was an attempt at a straw purchase.

Mr. Copeland was not taken into custody right away but his guns were confiscated.

It is possible that the media is blowing this up way out of proportion and attempting to draw attention away from the straw purchase and towards the illegal immigration problem....

But, draw your own conclusions. The case is so new that official transcripts or opinions will not be available for quite a while....

 

[Texasjack]

I didn't need another reason to want to secede, but I'll add this event to my list.

 

[majormadmax]

He says he was convicted by a "jury of his peers", his words, for knowingly participating in a straw-purchase; that is, knowingly selling to a person not illegible under state and federal law to purchase or possess a firearm.

Well, that's a whole different ballgame now, isn't it?