Another black man shot by police, ATL police chief resigns

[BillFairbanks]

IMO, the cop was completely justified.


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[Oldbluered]

I fully expect to get shot if I swing on or try to fight a cop. Believing this, if I was to resist and even try to use a stun gun or point my phone quickly at him, that would be suicide by cop in my mind.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm kind of mixed on this one. On one hand, he was violent (fighting with cops while resisting, got the upper hand, and got the taser) and had a weapon.

Where I'm not convinced lethal force was the right call - it was a taser, not a pistol or a baton. The taser has a limited range. Its typically not lethal (it can be, but usually isn't) and its not terribly effective unless you get a body shot. Those cops are presumably wearing body armor - the taser probes won't penetrate the armor, and if they followed him at distance outside 26 feet, he's not a threat with the taser, and he only gets one shot with it IF he figured out how to work it. Highly doubt he knows how to use the contact stun ability on it and he's not toting extra cartridges around with him. I think they should've followed him, brought in more cops and taken him down with physical force, beanbag shotgun - but not lethal force.

These cops are probably OK within letter of policy and letter of Georgia law. That doesn't make their actions right, it just makes them "legal" if indeed they're found to be within both policy and law.

Its a shit situation all around. The guy needed to be in jail, not the morgue. But he has a demonstrable lack of good judgement - he's passed out drunk in the drive thru of a Wendy's - other cars had to go around him - he wasn't just "sleeping" like the media says. He'd already driven drunk to the Wendy's, endangering others around him. Then instead of just taking the ride to jail and facing his DUII, his brain failed again and he fought.

The police chief showed a clear lack of support and respect, and probably figured her job was done anyway, but way to demoralize those who were under her command!

I don't like unions as a rule, and I don't typically support strikes - but given the current bullshit going down nation wide, I think the police need to stage a 48 or 72 hour blue flu across the entire US. Let everyone see what happens when the abolishment types get their way, see what happens when people are just allowed to do whatever the hell they want without regard to others or the laws. The police in the festering holes are already pulling back and "depolicing" so why not make it a national thing for a little while?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

No armor on their legs or arms, maybe 50/50 chance of making contact.
Stun the one, take his gun.

I would want to go home at end of shift if I was one of the officers.

 

[kbaxter60]

It's not like Wendy's shot the guy.

No, it's not.
But it is like:
* the Wendy's likely employed people in the area.
* the Wendy's was a source for meals for people in the area. Not gonna argue the healthiness aspects, but it IS food.
* that's all I have, other than this is just stupid.

 

[pronstar]

Body armor works great as long as competent shooters are unloading on you.

Paraphrase from Clint Smith


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[Sasquatch]

No armor on their legs or arms, maybe 50/50 chance of making contact.
Stun the one, take his gun.

I would want to go home at end of shift if I was one of the officers.

Probes spread like shotgun pellets, at distance your chances of getting both probes in goes down. For the stun effect to happen you need both probes in. You're not going to get the same effect either by hitting their arm as you will the trunk of the body.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Here is a 6 minute (edited down for time) video.
I hadn't seen it yet.

 

[Sasquatch]

Here is a 6 minute (edited down for time) video.
I hadn't seen it yet.

Good video - and it demonstrates the ineffectiveness of the taser - further adding to why this guy probably shouldn't have been shot. He got tased and ran away while being tased. I think the shooting comes from the other officer panicking. *Could* the taser have been successfully deployed against one officer, sure, maybe, but it didn't stop Brooks. And two cops vs one guy - if he's tasing and trying to disarm one officer, the other cop would've been (in theory) fighting too. Fighting over the gun would've made the shooting a lot less questionable, but that's not what happened.

The officer who shot was the one who had just unsuccessfully tased him - they had what looks to be about 10-12 feet between them when Brooks turns and we see the flash light from his taser then Rolfe shoots him. Adrenaline is a bitch and I think it ultimately is why things transpired how they did. Everything went from easy and calm to 100mph in seconds, fight or flight kicked in for both Brooks and Rolfe. Brooks wanted to escape, he'd already fought off the cops. Rolfe was equally in the throws of fight or flight, he was no doubt scared, and he was trying to make the arrest and win the fight.

Ultimately Brooks' bad decision making resulted in his death, and we get the benefit of watching the video after the fact. I still don't think the shoot was morally justified, but it is likely "clean" by the standard of Georgia law and agency policy. And if it wasn't for the 3 weeks of riots we've already seen, I don't know if Wendy's would've gotten burned to the ground over this.

 

[rotor]

I really can't believe anyone thinks this is a good shoot. Maybe in Georgia it is a legal shoot but in Texas if this was you or me pulling the trigger because the guy fought with us, stole our taser and ran away, then we shot him three times. Nope. They had his car, they knew where he lived, just a bunch of dumb cops that lost it. They will be going to jail over this one I believe. And rightfully so.

 

[Geezer]

From watching the video, I think the shot was justified.

Now, I have never been in a brawl that was a life or death situation. My question is an honest one and I'm not trying to diminish the attempted arrest. But, how did two trained officers let a drunk get away from them after they had him on the ground?

Were they afraid to use any more restraint to cuff the guy? Whatever the reason, they let the guy escape and he could have just as easily taken a gun instead of a taser.

 

[Axxe55]

I'm going to throw in my two cents worth of opinion in the discussion.

I think emotions are at a peak on both sides of the fence, especially because of the George Floyd murder. With all the protests, rioting and looting, I would have to imagine just about every LE officer is on high alert, and their stress levels in dealing with any encounter is going to send their adrenaline levels into overdrive.

Granted, a Taser is very limited range weapon, but in that particular scenario, I can't say that I totally find fault in the officer's actions. I would like to hear the officer's comments on the encounter and his opinions. He reacted to a situation, that he probably felt in fear for his life, or the safety of the other officer.

It is easy to sit back after the fact, to second guess his actions, or to criticise, or even condemn his actions. But he was reacting to a situation that spanned a couple of minutes with high stress levels, high adrenaline and possibly even hightened fear levels. How would anyone here react to that same exact scenario? I can say honestly, I don't know that I might have done any different than they did.

It doesn't matter how this incident is handled, either of one side, is going to find fault. Either the man shot was in the right, or the officer was in the right. If the officer is fired, or is retained and found he acted appropriately, doesn't matter. In light of current events in our country with the riots, looting and protests, this is a media nightmare for the officer and the department. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. I also think too many in light of current events are going to jump to conclusions, and rush to judgement over this shooting before all the facts are made public.

Until I see differently, I'm going to have to side with the officers on this one, unless more evidence comes know that might change my opinions on this shooting.

EDA: I think even those that think the officer shouldn't have shot the suspect, do raise some questions that should be answered. Some valid questions. I may not necessarily agree with their opinions on the shooting, but they are still valid questions and should be answered.

 

[Hoji]

If you or I shot a fleeing bad guy after a robbery we would be going to jail. This to me seems uncalled for use of lethal force. He took the tazer away from the cop and ran away and was shot. He didn't have the cops gun. The initial stop was for a minor offense. Yes he did resist arrest but that does not call for lethal force. Just my opinion until more is known.

Did you watch the video ? He fired the taser at the pursuing officer.
Tasers are not “non” lethal but “less than” lethal.
Good shoot.

 

[jrbfishn]

From watching the video, I think the shot was justified.

Now, I have never been in a brawl that was a life or death situation. My question is an honest one and I'm not trying to diminish the attempted arrest. But, how did two trained officers let a drunk get away from them after they had him on the ground?

Were they afraid to use any more restraint to cuff the guy? Whatever the reason, they let the guy escape and he could have just as easily taken a gun instead of a taser.

How does a drunk get away from 2 trained cops?
Easily.
I have seen it take 10 or more to subdue smaller men than him.
Those that deal with drunks very much know that quite a few of them can have bones broken and not even realize it until the wake up sober. They can seem perfectly functional and have no memory of it after. Or beat people to death and not realize they are even doing it until they are sober. Horrified they did it, but too late.
There are happy drunks, stupid drunks and violent drunks. At times they fall into a combination of 1/2 or 2/3. Add to that the fact that they feel no pain or empathy at the time.
Violent or stupid and violent that feel no pain can be deadly. Quick.

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[rotor]

Did you watch the video ? He fired the taser at the pursuing officer.
Tasers are not “non” lethal but “less than” lethal.
Good shoot.

Were they in fear for their lives? Both cops, one taser. You really have to say were they in fear for their lives? Had one been hit and disabled the other cop could have used his gun. This shooting did not meet the test that they were in fear for their lives. I predict bad things for these cops. They had so many other options besides killing the guy. Now if he had taken their gun I would agree with the lethal force.

 

[Hoji]

Were they in fear for their lives? Both cops, one taser. You really have to say were they in fear for their lives? Had one been hit and disabled the other cop could have used his gun. This shooting did not meet the test that they were in fear for their lives. I predict bad things for these cops. They had so many other options besides killing the guy. Now if he had taken their gun I would agree with the lethal force.

You just have no clue as to when deadly force can be used lawfully. If you have a LTC, please voluntarily surrender it. You have no business carrying a gun.
And from your comment, it would seem that,, no, you did not watch the video.

 

[avvidclif]

I really can't believe anyone thinks this is a good shoot. Maybe in Georgia it is a legal shoot but in Texas if this was you or me pulling the trigger because the guy fought with us, stole our taser and ran away, then we shot him three times. Nope. They had his car, they knew where he lived, just a bunch of dumb cops that lost it. They will be going to jail over this one I believe. And rightfully so.

Rotor your Jesus nut fell off.

 

[Axxe55]

Were they in fear for their lives? Both cops, one taser. You really have to say were they in fear for their lives? Had one been hit and disabled the other cop could have used his gun. This shooting did not meet the test that they were in fear for their lives. I predict bad things for these cops. They had so many other options besides killing the guy. Now if he had taken their gun I would agree with the lethal force.

I'm not going to say that killing the guy was the best, or only option available to the officers, but from what I have seen and heard so far, it was totally justified, considering the events that led up to the shooting of the suspect.

I hope that the officers have sincere remorse, in wishing it hadn't come to the point of having to use deadly force, but given the situation, I think it's very possible to conclude those officers did act in fear for their lives.

 

[rotor]

You just have no clue as to when deadly force can be used lawfully. If you have a LTC, please voluntarily surrender it. You have no business carrying a gun.
And from your comment, it would seem that,, no, you did not watch the video.

Yes I have an LTC and perhaps you could enlighten me on when deadly force can be used in Texas. A fleeing bad guy with no lethal weapon is not grounds for lethal force unless he has stolen irretrievable property. These cops are going to jail.

 

[Hoji]

Yes I have an LTC and perhaps you could enlighten me on when deadly force can be used in Texas. A fleeing bad guy with no lethal weapon is not grounds for lethal force unless he has stolen irretrievable property. These cops are going to jail.

Sure sport. In Texas deadly force is defined as force that can cause death, or serious bodily injury.
You may use deadly force in self defense to protect yourself from another’s use or attempted use of deadly force.
A taser has the potential to cause serious bodily injury. He was shot immediately after firing the taser at the officer chasing him. Had the prongs connected, the officer would have gone face first into the pavement and more likely than not, sustained a serious bodily injury, or possibly death.
I am somewhat surprised the instructor for your LTC did not cover this. Or maybe you were surfing Facebook during the Use of Force section of your class

If any of those officers go to jail, it will be because of politics, not the law.