150 Armed Militia take over Oregon Federal Building

[TheDan]

Two key members of the Oregon militia, who continue to hold the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, say Arizona officials took their children from their homes as an act of revenge.

Not surprising... You do something like this and it puts your whole life under a microscope while the state looks for anything to get you on. Overdue library books from 30 years ago? That's stealing government property!

 

[zincwarrior]

Tell me again how you occupy a place and not threaten violence?

Happens all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

Of course we will never agree as I do not perceive "rule of law" inviolable and sacrosanct. I don't believe deferring to legal recourse to equate to an appeal to justice. Had our Republic remained the ideal envisioned by it's founders, with the Federal government limited in scope and constrained by the Constitution and separation of powers, I would have no choice but to agree with you however that is not the case. Our federal government bears no resemblance to that lofty ideal of individual self determination.

I understand. As you don't believe in the sanctity of law, then you must believe in might makes right. In that context we are just any other banana republic and the government generally just exterminates those who don't follow the party line. Again, under this theory, there's nothing to stop the government from doing a nice crush and grind on them. Do you really think that form of conflict resolution is wise?

 

[TheDan]

As you don't believe in the sanctity of law, then you must believe in might makes right.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what laws are. Laws are "might makes right". The only way laws have any validity is through the use of force. Sometimes laws are based on morals, but mostly they are not.

 

[zincwarrior]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what laws are. Laws are "might makes right". The only way laws have any validity is through the use of force. Sometimes laws are based on morals, but mostly they are not.

And when you believe in going beyond that level you risk the rule of the mob, or the wealthy. We have laws in place to avoid having the place become just another central American hellhole.

Again, if you subscribe to the theory of "other means" then you may not like the result.

 

[Whistler]

As you don't believe in the sanctity of law, then you must believe in might makes right.

By no means is that a logical correlation in light of what I said but it's a different discussion.

In that context we are just any other banana republic and the government generally just exterminates those who don't follow the party line.

To quote you "happens all the time"

Again, under this theory, there's nothing to stop the government from doing a nice crush and grind on them. Do you really think that form of conflict resolution is wise?

Whether or not I think it wise doesn't change the fact "there's nothing to stop them".

 

[TheDan]

you risk the rule of the mob, or the wealthy.

That's what we currently have. Laws get created either by the influence of a democratic majority of people (the mob) or the wealthy's lobbyists. We have a supreme law (the Constitution) that is supposed to restrain the above, but the same people being influenced are the ones responsible for enforcing the restraint. Conflict of interest for them to act as moral agents.

You see the new X-files?

 

[zincwarrior]

That's what we currently have. Laws get created either by the influence of a democratic majority of people (the mob) or the wealthy's lobbyists. We have a supreme law (the Constitution) that is supposed to restrain the above, but the same people being influenced are the ones responsible for enforcing the restraint. Conflict of interest for them to act as moral agents.

In many ways we agree on that above statement. We just disagree on how to address perceived injustices, fearful that that could spiral.

You see the new X-files?

Wife has. I did just binge watch all the episodes of The Expanse to date.

 

[TheDan]

Wife has. I did just binge watch all the episodes of The Expanse to date.

When you watch it, remember this conversation when Mulder kicks the poster

 

[zincwarrior]

Will do!

 

[SA_Steve]

Wonder when this occupation ends ?
I'm betting 10 days tops - mid-Feb

 

[zincwarrior]

Wonder when this occupation ends ?
I'm betting 10 days tops - mid-Feb

Whats your thoughts here? Too cold or something else?

 

[TheDan]

Wonder when this occupation ends ?
I'm betting 10 days tops - mid-Feb

I'm betting mid-Nov

 

[zincwarrior]

I would have already lost, saying it would have ended a long time ago.

 

[Davetex]

Feds will wait for a super windy day, then set fire to it. Just like Waco.

 

[vmax]

This is true. Then I revert to my other point on that. If they are not being "civilly disobedient" then there is no reason the government can also act uncivil. Although the could start firing the artillery, I'd imagine a nice C130 dropping cow poop would be way more fun.

Having said that, I prefer how the government has handled it to date. But if they keep making threats against citizens it should be acted on, and if any of them make the mistake of doing something violent then the government should hit them with everything and treat them as dangerous felons.

Yes sir
There are gas fumes there just waiting for a spark and when it lights off God help us
I meow little about the Bundy led group or their real intentons
I just share themail same feelings with them in principle about land grabbing tyrants like the BLM

 

[vmax]

Feds will wait for a super windy day, then set fire to it. Just like Waco.

They will only do it to save the children

 

[grasshopperglock]

The latest news go's along with y'alls convo.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ssure-them-into-surrender-heres-what-we-know/

 

[Vaquero]

I would have already lost, saying it would have ended a long time ago.

No shit?

 

[Davetex]

[SIZE=+1]Breaking Burns Oregon: Reports of Shots Fired - Casualties and Hospital Lockdown [/SIZE]


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3388984/posts

 

[Davetex]

Leader of Oregon occupation Ammon Bundy, three others arrested

http://katu.com/news/local/leader-of-oregon-occupation-ammon-bundy-three-others-arrested