83(R) HB 700 - Open Carry Bill

[warmachine77]

Hey everyone - check out HB 1194. No mention of level 2 holsters - less restrictive. Here is a link: 83(R) HB 1194 - Introduced version - Bill Text

Never been very good at legal ease but it looks like it's only dealing with liquor stores because further down it says a license can be revoked if they knowingly allow someone to carry on their premesis. Maybe i'm wrong.

 

[txinvestigator]

Never been very good at legal ease but it looks like it's only dealing with liquor stores because further down it says a license can be revoked if they knowingly allow someone to carry on their premesis. Maybe i'm wrong.

That bill lists ALL of the changes to all of the laws that would be changed in order to make open carry lawful.

 

[warmachine77]

Ok so will the wording in that bill be more helpful or harmful to us?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[txinvestigator]

If you desire open carry be legal it is a positive bill.

 

[warmachine77]

Thanks

 

[jordanmills]

Hey everyone - check out HB 1194. No mention of level 2 holsters - less restrictive. Here is a link: 83(R) HB 1194 - Introduced version - Bill Text

Just saw that today. I like the look of it. It was authored by Paddie, who is a co-author on SB700. Wonder if there is some drama that resulted in that.

 

[biglucky]

Just saw that today. I like the look of it. It was authored by Paddie, who is a co-author on SB700. Wonder if there is some drama that resulted in that.

You mean drama like everyone complaining about a ridiculous holster requirement brought about by some supposed LEO complaints?? That the kind of drama you might be referring too?

 

[jordanmills]

You mean drama like everyone complaining about a ridiculous holster requirement brought about by some supposed LEO complaints?? That the kind of drama you might be referring too?

No, I would hope Mr. Lavender would fix that in his own bill. That's a design flaw, not drama.

Someone asked about 1194 on his facebook page and he said this:

George Lavender for State Representative 1194 is a bill for inadvertent exposure. It will only matter if we can't get OC passed. It's nice to have options, though!

 

[Okiebryan]

Hello, everyone. My name is Bryan, I'm the President of Oklahoma Open Carry Association.

I came over here to offer my help. I can answer questions, make suggestions, or whatever. I've already given interviews to a couple of reporters from Texas. OC has gone well here in OK. Here's a couple of things I'd like to share...

1) Do everything you can to lose the holster retention requirements. You don't want LEOs being the arbiters of whether your holster meets requirements. It also gives them a reason to stop and talk, which of course they will use to fish for RAC for a detention.

2) Licensed OC is not all that bad. Police are not going around jacking us up to see the license, in fact, we've only had 2 people be asked to produce it. One was because the licensee was starting a conversation with the LEO and being a bit of a dork, the other was because someone made a MWAG call. That encounter was very friendly, respectful, and lasted all of 60 seconds. One advantage of licensed OC that we've seen is that businesses are easier to convince to take down the signs, when all the OCers are licensed.

3) Research the stats on OC. Know them so you can defeat the "what it" arguments. Criminals don't "shoot OCers first", it's actually never happened to any non-LEO open carrier ANYWHERE. Criminals don't steal your gun. It's happened twice that I can find to non-LEO OC'ers. It's happened dozens of times to concealed carriers, when they were mugged and the robber got a nice surprise when he found the victim's concealed handgun.

4) Passage of OC will cause an increase in 30.06 signs, but most will come down in a year or so. It was just the same here in Oklahoma when we got CC in 1996. You also will find it's not terribly hard to convince businesses to remove them with calm reasoned discussion, and some well written literature (which we have on our website for members to print out (Oklahoma specific)) We also made Oklahoma specific "No Guns=No Money" cards.

5) Open carry is an undeniable deterrent. I realize that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I have several stories where bad guys obviously get nervous and avoid the OCer, while regular people hardly even notice. You might find this useful.

 

[Okiebryan]

One of our house Reps tried at insert a floor amendment to require retention in our open carry bill. It was at the request of law enforcement. It was immediately tabled by an overwhelming vote, because we had told our reps what a bad idea it was to have LE going around bothering lawful people for the purpose of inspecting holsters.

 

[WBrown999]

Bryan, welcome to the TGT forums. First off, thank you for your input on the efficacy of OC in your state. Although Oklahoma and Texas are different, we share very similar cultural and geographical locations, making comparison of legislation ideal. OC is a foreign topic to most of us Texans, barring the rural carrier or those who remember when OC was the only carry method in Texas (see: old farts).

I think you will find that although some people will choose to only CC, we mostly agree that it should be the citizen's, not government, that makes that choice.

 

[Okiebryan]

Bryan, welcome to the TGT forums. First off, thank you for your input on the efficacy of OC in your state. Although Oklahoma and Texas are different, we share very similar cultural and geographical locations, making comparison of legislation ideal. OC is a foreign topic to most of us Texans, barring the rural carrier or those who remember when OC was the only carry method in Texas (see: old farts).

I think you will find that although some people will choose to only CC, we mostly agree that it should be the citizen's, not government, that makes that choice.

Thanks. I agree completely about OK and TX. Having lived both in Lubbock and in Galveston County in the late 80's to mid 90's, I can definitely say that we have a lot in common, college football aside (BOOMER SOONER!)...

Here in Oklahoma, 3 months into open carry, my best estimate is that fewer than 5% of the ~142,000 licensees are open carrying. The number is growing all the time as people see that those of us who choose to OC are not having any problems with LE (or criminals, for that matter). I expect that percentage to climb higher as summer rolls around and people learn how liberating it is to not need concealment in one hundred and CHRIST IT'S HOT temperatures.

One other advantage that states like ours who came late to the open carry scene, is that when it passes and goes into effect, the public and LE will be VERY WELL educated on the legality. Your media will talk about it non stop for weeks. Right now, you need an organization with an advocate for the media to talk to, or else the only people they will talk to is the "tactical expert" or the LEO who will tell everyone how stoopid OC is, with the "first dood shot" garbage.

I mentioned that I did an interview or two with TX media. Here's one that came out in Ft Worth Star Telegram last weekend, I think...

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Thanks Bryan. Excellent resources.

The only thing I can think of that's better than OC is the SEC. Gig 'em.

 

[matefrio]

How did you start or become president of the Oklahoma Open Carry Association?

 

[Okiebryan]

How did you start or become president of the Oklahoma Open Carry Association?

Excellent question! I became interested in open carry in 2010. I learned that it was legal for me to OC inside my own business, and bought a holster for my 9mm. The following summer, an armed robbery attempt was.. let's just say they changed their mind... and I had been reading about other states on OCDO (OpenCarry.org | “A Right Unexercised is a Right Lostâ€) and decided to experience it myself.

I took a ten day vacation in Nevada (unlicensed OC state) where I OCd, had dinner with some local OCers, and saw firsthand that OC in an area that has become used to it is a complete non-issue.

I returned home and started the Facebook page (Sep 26, 2011). It slowly grew and I connected with other people and groups who wanted to see OC legislation become law. When our legislative session started in February 2012, we had around 300 VERY CONNECTED people following our page.

As the legislative session went on, I noticed a couple of others who were really giving a lot of effort. One was following legislation like a veteran news reporter. Another had years of experience as a former resident of Michigan, and an active member of MOC (Michigan Open Carry). By the time the bill (SB1733) was signed into law in May of 2012, we have more then 700 facebook followers, and we had used our FB page to generate a metric shitload of emails and phone calls to legislators.

About a week later, the three of us decided to create a non-profit educational organization. We knew that the public, the media, handgun carriers, and especially law enforcement needed to be educated on the new law that was to go into effect on Nov 1, 2012. We started accepting paid memberships, and spending the money on things like website, trifold pamphlets, and business cards.

We had a very successful runup to Nov 1. Basically all the news media in the state came to us for questions and interviews. The New York Times sent a reporter. The Oklahoma Municipal Attorneys Association talked to one of the founders before writing their opinion essay for their members. Several major LE agencies talked to us while preparing their training. Nov 1 came, about 30 of us gathered at midnight for an OC breakfast, another 30 or 40 gathered in Owasso for lunch, and the media was there to cover it all.

Now our major focus has been educating businesses about the fallacy that is the "gun free zone". We've been pretty successful at convincing businesses to see things our way. Some have gone from "no carry" to "no open carry", and that's ok. It is their property, and we respect their rights as owners.

We had elections, 2 board members resigned to do other things, and I was the only one nominated for the office of President. We took the lead and organized the "Guns Across America" rally for Oklahoma, and an estimated 2000 people attended at the State Capitol in Jan 19. Probably 20-30% were open carrying, and the local news media absolutely ate it up.

Probably more than you were asking, but someone needs to do this in Texas. Seriously. Take control of the conversation and give the media someone to go to for interviews and questions.

 

[Vaquero]

Bryan has very helpful experience. I, for one, appreciate you joining us. Let's use the free knowledge and get this going.
Bryan, thank you for your time here and moreso for your dedication to Oklahoma and the 2nd amendment.

 

[Okiebryan]

Look. I run a wrecker service in OKC and have a degree in marketing and an associates in civil land surveying. I'm trying to say that it doesn't take someone that special to get the ball rolling. Someone who can remember some facts, who isn't buck tooth butt ass ugly, and who isn't afraid to talk on camera. Most importantly, you have to be committed to the cause for the long haul, or at least until you can get others to take up the slack.

Is that person you? Then start a FB page. Tell people where it is. Share it with your friends, and ask them to share it. Keep your focus on the page razor sharp. We never allowed anti Obama right wing rants, not because we didn't agree, but because it hurt our mission. Make a FB page that you would be proud to have the news media and Texas legislators take a look at.

If I think of more, I'll share. Keep the questions coming!

 

[jordanmills]

One of our house Reps tried at insert a floor amendment to require retention in our open carry bill. It was at the request of law enforcement. It was immediately tabled by an overwhelming vote, because we had told our reps what a bad idea it was to have LE going around bothering lawful people for the purpose of inspecting holsters.

We've been talking with the author about it. But we really need to start hounding him.

 

[jordanmills]

Look. I run a wrecker service in OKC and have a degree in marketing and an associates in civil land surveying. I'm trying to say that it doesn't take someone that special to get the ball rolling. Someone who can remember some facts, who isn't buck tooth butt ass ugly, and who isn't afraid to talk on camera. Most importantly, you have to be committed to the cause for the long haul, or at least until you can get others to take up the slack.

Is that person you? Then start a FB page. Tell people where it is. Share it with your friends, and ask them to share it. Keep your focus on the page razor sharp. We never allowed anti Obama right wing rants, not because we didn't agree, but because it hurt our mission. Make a FB page that you would be proud to have the news media and Texas legislators take a look at.

If I think of more, I'll share. Keep the questions coming!

Thanks for the sharing, suggestions, and constructive input. I hope you stick around and give us more of it.

 

[warmachine77]

Why does it take the house longer to get things to committee than the senate?