MINIMUM DEFENSIVE CARRY CALIBER

[oldag]

A shocking number of people are shot with their own guns.
That's why I like a manual safety.
Most people today are so used to a trigger safety. Its one small "combination" that a practiced user can "solve" before use and dumbass the perp wont.

I do like a manual safety.

 

[easy rider]

I do like a manual safety.

Condition 1

 

[@TX_1]

With all due respect to the Police Officer's bravery for engaging superior fire power. Apparently, he did not take out the terroirs. According to the Police chief, they were taken out by the SWAT team using 5.56 rifles.

Gunman in “Draw Muhammad” Shooting Was Former Target of FBI Terror Probe

In 2010, authorities arrested Elton Simpson, one of the two suspected gunmen in a weekend shooting outside a contest in Texas featuring cartoons of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad. At the time, the young man from Phoenix was the target of a terror investigation that had begun some four years...

www.nbcdfw.com

Garland police spokesman Joe Harn said Monday that a single Garland police officer subdued the two gunmen but that after his initial shots, SWAT officers nearby also fired at the two men. Harn said police don't know who fired the lethal shots.

 

[@TX_1]

I really would not worry about a printing. As others have observed, the overwhelming majority will never notice anything. And if they do, they will most likely assume it is a cell phone case.

Yes, I do have a really large cell phone and case. Horizontal with belt. Thanks for observation.

 

[leVieux]

More important than the caliber, is the need to be familiar and train with the weapon.

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Yes, but what ever happened to to speed of access & deployment ?

Didn’t “quick draw” go out of favor some 40 or 50 years back ?

Still, the concern does have some merit.

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[leVieux]

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[Tnhawk]

Home | Krieghoff

Krieghoff International is the Sales and Marketing Distributor for the K-80, K-20, Classic Rifle in North America with Service and Warranty Center.

www.krieghoff.com

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[leVieux]

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TX was lamenting that there were few firearms companies with HQ’s in Texas.

That one came to mind.

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[Rock Torrey]

No, I did not mean they will ricochet off a human, but there are solid objects all around in an urban environment. I was speaking of collateral damage to firing in that environment. Last thing you want to happen when in such a situtation that it is necessary to fire in self defense, is you to miss the perp and hit solid object and it ricochets into a bystander.

That is why slow moving often jacketed hollow point or coated cast lead bullets are less apt to cause collateral damage.

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

 

[zackmars]

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

I don't know of any cops that use FMJ for anything other than practice

 

[cav2108541]

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Ii’ve been watching these discussions, often heated, here & elsewhere, I feel need to comment.

Over the past 55 years, I’ve seen hundreds of handgun shooting survivors, and quite a few of the dead corpses. I’b bet I’ve seen more gunshot wounds up-close than any panel of gun experts.

This has been a mix of suicides, gun battles, hunting accidents, police shootings, etc.

To my mind, the OBJECT of shooting game animals is to put them down quickly & humanely, dead.

But the stated object of defensive shootings is to ‘’stop the threat’’ , not necessarily to kill.

From memory, two of the worst single wound survivors I’ve seen were NOPD officers who each got one regular .380 to the upper mid abdomen in a ‘’traffic stop’’.

Strangely, i have seen many serious injuries and two DEATHS from Red Ryder type BB guns. Both of the deaths were contributed to by E D personnel ‘’mis underestimating’’ the seriousness of what appeared to be a very minor injury. In slender young boys, the thin wall of the right cardiac atrium is not far behind the skin b/t ribs. A tiny hole in the heart often causes fatal cardiac tamponade.

When defending against an armored attacker, good luck. Try head or lower extremity shots.

But, for the average civilian defensive incident; no shot is fired, anyway. The mere presence of a weapon stops the attack.

With reference to ‘’minimum caliber’’ , anything above .32ACP should be adequate, BECAUSE a criminal with a .380 to the chest of gut will suddenly lose interest in continuing has crimes. Allowing you to escape.

Safety planning is an exercise in understanding relative risks. Wether the subject is vaccines, lightning strikes, plane crashes, or crimes; wisdom dictates that planning focus on the most likely to happen.

My dictum on this is: In an emergency, ANY handgun is a lot better than NO handgun. A .22 is better than your finger.

So, IMHO, a very experienced opinion based on years of involvement, advice is to pick a primary carry gun which wll ALWAYS be with you. Focus on carryability & convenience, not caliber.

A corollary to this is that those tasked with defending us against armored attackers, as in military or ‘’crazy people mass shootings’’ should be armed with carbines of adequate caliber and with modern sighting systems. The idea of school guards and hospital security having to carry only 9mm’s but having AR10’s in storage is just plain stupid.

leVieux

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Baseball Bat. 60mm striking surface. Aluminum or wood depending on moisture levels and whether you want to keep it in your vehicle year-round.

 

[seeker_two]

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

Hollowpoints don't always expand....especially in .38Spl, which it sounds like this CO had.

 

[@TX_1]

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

I don't live in a city. But, there is a huge liability issue for reckless use of firearms, not matter how bad the threat to your life is. I have a new 9mm pistol coming early next week. I loaded some ammo for it. 147 gr RDFP coated lead bullets and 3.5 grains Clean Shot. It will not be a fast bullet but in the 920 fps range.Lead bullets are not prone to ricochet and are less likely to penetrate walls than FMJ does. Have not shot this load before, but for close range, high velocity should be taken seriously.

Did the perp in the operating room die?

 

[General Zod]

I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

From what I've heard, most police departments issue Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints. I'm not aware of any LE agency that issues FMJ - even in leftist enclaves where hollowpoints are forbidden to the average citizen.

 

[zackmars]

From what I've heard, most police departments issue Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints. I'm not aware of any LE agency that issues FMJ - even in leftist enclaves where hollowpoints are forbidden to the average citizen.

Speer gold dots, hst, ranger t's and some use critical duty. Those are the big ones

 

[paknheat]

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

It’s been a long time since I worked for TDCJ.

But the standard issued revolver load was a .38 special 158 gn lead round nose bullet. Hollow points were forbidden.

I don’t know if that’s still the case though. Sure sounds like it is.


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[leVieux]

I don't know of any cops that use FMJ for anything other than practice

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Agencies around here mandate use of ‘ball’ ammo when on duty.

Also, my long-ago experience with 1911’s taught me that ball gave fewer FTL’s.

When I was last in the Army, c. 1978, issue handgun ammo for both B92 & 1911 was all ‘’ball’’.

Today, there is a SuperVel or Hornady HP in the semi-auto chambers & in revolvers. I’m so old fashioned that I keep at least one Winchester ‘’SilverTip’’ loaded for werewolf or vampire encounters.

Zack, I appreciate your comments. . . . .

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[cycleguy2300]

A corrections officer in central Texas fired 6 rounds into a perp. in the OPERATING ROOM. He hit the perp. with all 6 rounds, but 3 of them went through and landed at various places (nurses station, through the wall next to pipes with oxygen (and other gases).

He was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm. Case is prob. still in court now. I would assume (but have no clue) that police are not allowed to fire hollow points.

Where in N Texas?
When?

I call BS on that story.

A ND that endangers someone is called "DEADLY CONDUCT"

If the shots were intentional (number fired and number of hits certainly suggests it wasn't and accident) it is no longer deadly conduct but agg assault or attempted murder if they were unjustified. If the shots were justified, they were reasonable and not negligent...

I.e. that story is a bunch of nonsense until a LOT of inconsistencies are answered.

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[cycleguy2300]

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Agencies around here mandate use of ‘ball’ ammo when on duty.

Also, my long-ago experience with 1911’s taught me that ball gave fewer FTL’s.

When I was last in the Army, c. 1978, issue handgun ammo for both B92 & 1911 was all ‘’ball’’.

Today, there is a SuperVel or Hornady HP in the semi-auto chambers & in revolvers. I’m so old fashioned that I keep at least one Winchester ‘’SilverTip’’ loaded for werewolf or vampire encounters.

Zack, I appreciate your comments. . . . .

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What agencies?

I have NEVER heard of ball/fmj being allowed for duty use and definitely never required.

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[SPACETRUCKER]

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Agencies around here mandate use of ‘ball’ ammo when on duty.

Also, my long-ago experience with 1911’s taught me that ball gave fewer FTL’s.

When I was last in the Army, c. 1978, issue handgun ammo for both B92 & 1911 was all ‘’ball’’.

Today, there is a SuperVel or Hornady HP in the semi-auto chambers & in revolvers. I’m so old fashioned that I keep at least one Winchester ‘’SilverTip’’ loaded for werewolf or vampire encounters.

Zack, I appreciate your comments. . . . .

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just know only wooden stakes work on vampires not silver bullets....