Multiple People Shot at Texas Church

[Ioannes]

Concealed means concealed. If you get made, you're doing it wrong.

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[Shady]

meh 90% of the time I am open carry i don't get made.

Concealed means concealed. If you get made, you're doing it wrong.

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[Glenn B]

Y’all forgot the part where John Correa is full of shit and an internet armchair commando knows better.

Well, since that came so close after my post I have to ask are you referring to me and my post?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Constitutional Carry is the carrying of firearms without a license or permit, which is exactly what he was doing. No license or permit is needed to carry a shotgun in Texas. On the other hand, the security team all had shall issue licenses, since they chose to have handguns.

I thought one of the clauses of constitutional carry was that the individual be legally carrying the firearm.

 

[Renegade]

I thought one of the clauses of constitutional carry was that the individual be legally carrying the firearm.

I must have missed that requirement in the Constitution.

 

[Jon Payne]

meh 90% of the time I am open carry i don't get made.

60% of the time stats are made up on the spot, but 80% of the time they’re right all the time.


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[roadkill]

Well, since that came so close after my post I have to ask are you referring to me and my post?

You would be correct. The video that was posted stated it was just an initial observation and opinion of what happened or something to that effect. He would be doing a more in-depth analysis later when more and better info comes out and the only reason he was doing the video was because of the live streamed video. He has analyzed lots (and I mean lots) of shootings all over the world. I would give him more credibility in an analysis of what went right and wrong than any armchair commando on the inner webs. Could he be wrong about certain things or should have made better suggestions, sure it’s possible he’s human. Same thing can most likely be said about any trainer out there. But he’s a source of knowledge that shouldn’t be discounted because one’s opinion of him isn’t highly regarded. It’s his subject matter knowledge that should matter here.

 

[Kar98]

 

[cycleguy2300]

Again, here you go with the assumptions. Perhaps his draw was 7 seconds a year ago, 4 seconds last month and now he had it down to 3.1

or perhaps he has a 1 second draw, but fumbled the draw,

or perhaps he had a bruised hand and could not get a good grip.

You continue to assume he just "sucked at firearms".



I understand and I generally do not disagree with your observations, but just your conclusions. I am not sure why you do not understand not every gets to have their church defended by Navy SEALs. Some churches, the best they can get is 65+ year old slow to draw people. Some churches cannot get anybody....

You could be right.. his draw may have been WAY worse once-upon-a-time, you and I will likely never know...

I would not be satisfied with 3 seconds to just clear leather, mostly because I have seen just how fast situations like this develop first hand.

Because I know most people do not draw from concealed a lot of folks have some pretty wonky ideas about where and how to carry. I am ASSUMING that is what we saw here, I have seen it before.There times and places to carry deep, but IMO doing church or other security work is not the place to carry as deep as he was...

As far as the possibility he could just be old and slow or injuried etc, sure, maybe he was, but I have two issues there. Most glaring to me is if you are so injured that you cannot function at a high level I don't think you let others depend on you (i.e. step aside) maybe there was no one else etc.
The second issue I see is just that the simple assumption and the one I have personally seen in training is lack of training, leading to a poor choice of carry position causing a slow draw. I do interpret the slow presentation following the draw as resulting from not expecting to actually have to shoot someone and thinking simply someone seeing the pistol would make them stop. I don't know that was the case and it is an assumption, but I think it fits what I saw better than the assumption he was just old and slow.

I do agree once the SHTF he put the tools and training had to use to the best of his ability.

I am just trying to say someone placed in a simular situation with a bit more training and having the tools needed more quickly accessible could might have the chance to fire first. The suspect hesitated too... I am not so much trying to second guess THIS situation, but look at it and see what options including training could have positively effected the outcome if you or I were put in a like situation at any stage of the incident.

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[cycleguy2300]

How would they have known he was upset?

I thought they didn't realize who it was until after the shooting?

Making an assumption based on his body language immediately prior to him producing the shotgun. Sub in BODY LANGUAGE if it makes you feel better, I like it better now that I say it anyway

But even if he wasn't visibly upset, the rest would throw up some major red flags to me, kinda like a guy in a ski mask walking into a bank with a couple of duffle bags... but I didn't see a gun so he's cool

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[Kar98]

You could be right.. his draw may have been WAY worse once-upon-a-time, you and I will likely never know...

I would not be satisfied with 3 seconds to just clear leather, mostly because I have seen just how fast situations like this develop first hand.

Because I know most people do not draw from concealed a lot of folks have some pretty wonky ideas about where and how to carry. I am ASSUMING that is what we saw here, I have seen it before.There times and places to carry deep, but IMO doing church or other security work is not the place to carry as deep as he was...

As far as the possibility he could just be old and slow or injuried etc, sure, maybe he was, but I have two issues there. Most glaring to me is if you are so injured that you cannot function at a high level I don't think you let others depend on you (i.e. step aside) maybe there was no one else etc.
The second issue I see is just that the simple assumption and the one I have personally seen in training is lack of training, leading to a poor choice of carry position causing a slow draw. I do interpret the slow presentation following the draw as resulting from not expecting to actually have to shoot someone and thinking simply someone seeing the pistol would make them stop. I don't know that was the case and it is an assumption, but I think it fits what I saw better than the assumption he was just old and slow.

I do agree once the SHTF he put the tools and training had to use to the best of his ability.

I am just trying to say someone placed in a simular situation with a bit more training and having the tools needed more quickly accessible could might have the chance to fire first. The suspect hesitated too... I am not so much trying to second guess THIS situation, but look at it and see what options including training could have positively effected the outcome if you or I were put in a like situation at any stage of the incident.

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Again, he stepped up to the plate when confronted with a loaded shotgun, did his best and if he didn't get a shot off, he gave the other guy the time to line up his shot. So to me that's as valuable a service as "drew and shot in a tenth of a second."

 

[Renegade]

I am just trying to say someone placed in a simular situation with a bit more training and having the tools needed more quickly accessible could might have the chance to fire first.

It appears he did fire first, he just missed. I guess you can criticize that as a lack of training too.

 

[cycleguy2300]

and your draw and fire would be that with a shotgun pointed at your face 10 feet away

Ok

Yes, because I have the right mindset and I train for it.

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[Kar98]

Yes, because I have the right mindset and I train for it.

How many times in your training did you have a live shotgun pointed at you by surprise?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Again, he stepped up to the plate when confronted with a loaded shotgun, did his best and if he didn't get a shot off, he gave the other guy the time to line up his shot. So to me that's as valuable a service as "drew and shot in a tenth of a second."

Yes, except to him, his family his friends... Personally I would prefer to kill the bad guy before they killed me, but I I cant, I hope it would give others a chance at him

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[cycleguy2300]

How many times in your training did you have a live shotgun pointed at you by surprise?

How does a question like that help anything?

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[Shady]

LOL

Yes, because I have the right mindset and I train for it.

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[Renegade]

Yes, because I have the right mindset and I train for it.

When we end 2020, this will still be the dumbest post of the year.

 

[cycleguy2300]

When we end 2020, this will still be the dumbest post of the year.

Troll

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[Vaquero]

Y'all need Jesus.


I mean that in the nicest way possible.