CO is falling as we speak

steve-o · Mar 12, 2013

Coloradoâ€™s Gun Control Update â€” Which Bills Are Advancing? | TheBlaze.com

General Zod · Mar 12, 2013

This one is especially troubling:

A total ban on gun and ammunition ownership for people accused of domestic violence

Nice. So now Colorado will penalize people for being ACCUSED of a crime? Considering that I was falsely accused of the same crime - and acquitted once it finally went to trial TWO YEARS LATER - I'm rather sensitive to this sort of bullshit. If someone's convicted, then (at least in Texas) they're already screwed as far as gun ownership goes, but to have penalties for being accused? That's absolutely a violation of that whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept we're supposed to hold so dear.

So glad I don't live in Colorado.

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

^^ thanks steve-o

Only one of the five bills heads to Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper to be signed into law[HB13-1228 - approving fee for UBC]. The remaining four must return to the House for more debate, including the ammunition magazine limit and the domestic violence bill[SB13-197]. The House is under Democratic control and will likely approve the measures.

Governor John Hickenlooper
136 State Capitol Bldg.
Denver, CO 80203-1792
Fax (303)866-2003
Tel (303)866-2471
email: Governor.hickenlooper@state.co.us
web: http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/governor_office.html
http://www.facebook.com/JohnHickenlooper?ref=ts&fref=ts

House Judiciary Committee
Rep. Daniel Kagan, Chair: 303-866-2921, repkagan@gmail.com
Rep. Pete Lee, Vice Chair: 303-866-2932, pete.lee.house@state.co.us
Rep. John Buckner: 303-866-2944, john.buckner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Lois Court: 303-866-2967, lois.court.house@state.co.us
Rep. Bob Gardner, 303-866-2191, bob.gardner.house@state.co.us
Rep. Polly Lawrence, 303-866-2935, polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us
Rep. Mike McLachlan, 303-866-2914, mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us
Rep. Rep Carole Murray, 303-866-2948, murrayhouse45@gmail.com
Rep. Brittany Pettersen, 303-866-2939, brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us
Rep. Joseph Salazar, 303-866-2918, joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us
Rep. Jared Wright, 303-866-2583, jared.wright.house@state.co.us

HB13-1229 Universal Background checks passes House 36-26 vote

Got work to do here. Try to change it. House addys are below

HB13-1224 (magazine capacity limit) passes the House with a 34 to 31 vote.

TheDan · Mar 12, 2013

Texanjoker said:
Where was everybody and their concern in the late 90's when CA got the bans? The battle for the 2nd should have started then.

Butt hurt much? I agree that there should have been more of an uproar in support of CA's gun owners, but I don't appreciate your implication that because no one spoke out then, we shouldn't bother now. I seriously hope it's plain for us to see that we all need to stand together on these issues NOW, regardless of what has happened in the past.

BTW, I was in the same boat as Sage and Shorts in the '90s. There's lots of 30-somethings on this board...

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

General Zod said:
This one is especially troubling:

A total ban on gun and ammunition ownership for people accused of domestic violence

Nice. So now Colorado will penalize people for being ACCUSED of a crime? Considering that I was falsely accused of the same crime - and acquitted once it finally went to trial TWO YEARS LATER - I'm rather sensitive to this sort of bullshit. If someone's convicted, then (at least in Texas) they're already screwed as far as gun ownership goes, but to have penalties for being accused? That's absolutely a violation of that whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept we're supposed to hold so dear.

So glad I don't live in Colorado.

Yeah this one is huge. It makes mandatory & automatic in any case of DV- without giving the judge the discretion to allow certain individuals/cases to be found not necessary to remove gun rights. (I don't know if this is just accused or if convicted).

Under current laws a Judge has the power to remove gun rights in these cases.

To see why this is a bad bill, you only need to look at the current unintended consequences of current DV/gun right cases.

General Zod · Mar 12, 2013

An automatic penalty for simply being accused sounds very...Soviet. Doesn't it?

Huntindoc · Mar 12, 2013

This is why no democrat should be allowed to be elected anywhere without significant challenge.

General Zod · Mar 12, 2013

Interesting reading a friend in Colorado sent me. Apparently the Democrats are changing rules in order to prevent other opinions from being heard, and threatening their sheriffs in an attempt to get them in line with leftist goals.

El Paso County Sheriff's Office - Sheriff Home Page

Shameful. And, one would hope, illegal.

recoveringyankee · Mar 12, 2013

TXARGUY said:
I could have told him to go climb a wall made of pussy but then I'd think 'damn I wanna do that' and the inherent insult just would not be there.

whoot, I'm up for that, but yah they would have to be MASSIVE pusses to support the weight :-(

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

Enough of the hijack stuff. If you want to talk about genitalia, go to the OT forum

benenglish · Mar 12, 2013

Shorts said:
Enough of the hijack...

If you believe it's that much of a problem, PM a moderator.

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

I don't think it has to go to that level yet. A "hey guys knock it off" ought to suffice.

TXARGUY · Mar 12, 2013

If you read back I didn't start the thread jack.

I have not had time to read all of the bills you posted yet but I'm afraid that Colorado is dead to me.

Yep, just checked. It's dead.

TheDan · Mar 12, 2013

TXARGUY said:
Whenever we were up there we saw 10 Texas license plates for every 1 Colorado plate. It was a running joke that Texas owned Colorado, we just couldn't vote.

Well, we can at least support the candidates we like. I sent a letter to Hickenlooper asking him to veto all the new bills and if he doesn't then I'll be financially contributing to his opponent next election. Not that I would ever support him in the first place, but now I'm actively going against him.

General Zod said:
El Paso County Sheriff's Office - Sheriff Home Page

Pretty interesting... Good on that sheriff.

cbigclarke · Mar 12, 2013

After reading the Sheriffs post it would lead me to think that the citizens should arm themselves, go down to the capital, and shut it down for violation of the rules.

Before some of y'all poopoo this thought, I remember a time once ago that a group of TN. citizens did the same thing at there capitol. They did it for a different reason at that time; but it is not without precedence.

kanderson8519 · Mar 12, 2013

There are tons of Colorado gun companies that should pack up and move to Texas!

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

TXARGUY said:
I have not had time to read all of the bills you posted yet but I'm afraid that Colorado is dead to me.

They are dead to me as well. I have no intention of spending any money in their state, touring or traveling. In the event a PCS is required,this will factor in as a 'hell no'.

My reason for assisting our CO gun brethren is because they asked for help. If we were in the same boat here I hope they'd assist if I asked. I read an interesting thread the other day, that gun control by states is gun control on everybody. It certainly affects the contiguous states. It affects traveling and commerce. It can affect lives too. Read where a guy gatherng supplies for a gun show passing through a ban state got pulled over for a taillight and one thing led to another, the guy is facing 10yrs in jail and will come out a felon. He was simply making purchases to display/sell an upcoming show. Or consider how travelers who fly with properly secured and declared firearms face connection flight in a ban state (NY) and they get laid over. These poor folks end up taking possession of their luggage with a firearm and they get arrested the next morning for trying to check a firearm. All because of the system in place makes no regard for these details.

Anyway, long story short, that strangle hold can reach out and grab anyone. We have to keep the nation as free of this crap as we can. Laws like these are a cancer.

Shorts · Mar 12, 2013

General Zod said:
Interesting reading a friend in Colorado sent me. Apparently the Democrats are changing rules in order to prevent other opinions from being heard, and threatening their sheriffs in an attempt to get them in line with leftist goals.

El Paso County Sheriff's Office - Sheriff Home Page

Shameful. And, one would hope, illegal.

Wow. Illegal comes to mind. But, considering the talk I've heard about a Bloomberg rep flying in at the last minute, I suspect this horsecrap about scheduling, different floors, sign up sheets and all that is a product of their backroom high dollar protected lawyers and the tactics they use to disenfranchise voters. Essentially their way of doing things. Not too far off from Dear Leader's, uh Mr Obama's style back hoe in Chicago. I guess Cuomo would be the common denominator here.

I don't know what COans plan to do but 'raise hell' comes to mind as a general term.

A Message from the El Paso County Sheriff's Office . . . . .

An Injustice Against our Citizens

Sheriff Terry Maketa
Monday, March 4, 2013, was unlike any day I’ve experienced in my 12 years testifying at the Colorado State Capitol. During my tenure, I’ve had numerous opportunities to participate in legislative processes from draft proposal to signature of a bill making it law.

I’ve witnessed many hearings and observed citizens, law enforcement, and special interest groups share opinions on a variety of proposed laws. I’ve witnessed very controversial bills set in a process to allow full access from supporters, opponents, and citizens to be heard by their legislators. On numerous occasions, bills similar in nature were set for hearing on different days to ensure opportunity for anyone to participate in the deliberative process. On Monday, this didn’t occur. Instead, gun bills were simultaneously scheduled and of 25 plus sheriffs, only one could testify per bill. Hearings were split so bills heard simultaneously were on different floors, even though all were heard by senate committees. Rules for testimony changed three times from Thursday afternoon through Monday at 10:30 am, when hearings began.

Historically, any citizen would be allowed to speak if they arrived at the Capitol early and signed up on testimony records. Although sign up sheets were in place and citizens including myself signed up, we were completely disregarded. Minutes after I signed up to testify, I learned a different process would be utilized and testimony was based on three categories: experts, preferred witnesses, and public witnesses. No explanation was provided to define expert or preferred witness. I was told this decision was made by the senate president and the chairperson of the hearing committee. Additionally, experts would have no time constraints and all others would be restricted to three minutes. I was completely disheartened at what I was witnessing and this was exacerbated when I learned experts included an individual that was not a resident of Colorado who had no credentials to qualify as an expert except his spouse was a victim of the Tucson Arizona shooting. He admitted he had not read the proposed bill and could not speak to any specifics regarding this bill. He encouraged Colorado to adopt universal background checks and close the gun show loophole, both of which already exist. Sadly, he testified with unlimited restriction as voters and taxpayers of this state sat helplessly as they were denied the right to testify during committee hearings.

My colleague, Sheriff John Cooke, testified in opposition of the “Universal Background Check” bill on behalf of most sheriffs while staying within the three minute constraint. Fortunately, I was allowed to testify because a member of the legislature listed me as an expert witness. I was honored and brought statistics and facts as it related to the national insta-check system (NICS); the probable criminalization of law abiding citizens and the unenforceability of this particular bill. I offered other options knowing we all share the common goal of reducing violence. I was proud to represent my constituents and the majority of our sheriffs. That pride was quickly diminished as I departed the hearing room and witnessed hundreds of citizens who would not be given the opportunity to testify. Although they expressed their sincere appreciation for my comments, I recognized the injustice that was unfolding before my eyes. Citizens of Colorado were prevented from participating in the legislative process. Their rights had been overridden by the agenda of a few members of the State Senate.

As I made my way out of the Capitol, I was shocked at the number of people who attended these hearings. It’s estimated the number of people in attendance reached 1,000. I spoke to several and was told they just wanted their voice to be heard. Many of them had never been to the Capitol, let alone testified on any bill. Some brought their children as a lesson in civics and sacrificed a day at work to participate in the law making process. Unfortunately, what they hoped for never happened.

Due to a prior commitment, I could not stay for the remaining bills. Later, I phoned a member of our legislature and expressed concern for what I had witnessed; changing of rules, time limits, new classification of speakers to establish priority and most of all the number of citizens who made the journey to the Capitol in hopes of being heard. I was told the rules did change several times and that this was very unusual. These changes were driven by the majority leadership, Senator John Morse, and the chairperson of the involved hearing committee.

I am not sharing this because of the outcome of the hearings that day; rather I am sharing this because of the process implemented and the faces of all those citizens that were never permitted to participate in the process. Government is supposed to be by the people, for the people and on this day, they were crushed and kicked to the side. Special interest coalitions and hand picked experts with no relevant expertise trumped our citizens.

To add insult to injury, the following Wednesday, I received an email containing the following language from a member of County Sheriffs Of Colorado: “…I have been advised by a reliable source at the Capitol that the Dems are seriously not pleased with the CSOC positions on the gun bills, and given the potential for a real salary bill to be introduced as you shall see from a follow-up email from” (an unnamed sheriff), “support of SB197 would put us in a more favorable light for salary bill support from the Dems. I do not believe we would be sacrificing our principles or positions on the other gun bills by supporting SB197.” “...Please let us know what you think on this proposal ASAP as I need to get a letter from us to the Senate Dems before the close of business today.” As I see it, senate Dems have made it known, “sheriffs, obey or no pay for you.” The first word that comes to my mind is extortion. Again, I’m disheartened that the pay of sheriffs is threatened to gain compliance with the majority party leadership. Local elected officials’ pay is set by the legislature as stated in Colorado Law. The previous governor’s process brought the need for a pay increase before the legislature and that legislature is attempting to buy compliance. I have great admiration for my fellow sheriffs; they are true professionals with high morals and principles. Having served with many of them for years, I can say they are men of honor with a passion to serve and do what’s right. I will not speak for them, but I personally will not concede to these threats, stand by while coercive acts such as this go without mention, nor will I compromise my values and beliefs for a justified pay raise based on studies performed by a bi-partisan commission formed by the democrat leadership. To be clear, this salary recommendation would have no affect on me, as I am term limited. Setting salaries is the responsibility of the legislature. This authority should not be used as a tool of coercion, but unfortunately it appears to have become such a device and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

- Sheriff Terry Maketa

benenglish · Mar 12, 2013

M. Sage said:
1: People honestly didn't know what was up in '94. A ton of people (even the NRA to a large degree) figured, "let 'em have those weird Rambo rifles. They won't come after my (insert wood and steel hunting rifle or shotgun here)." The amount of recent precedent for where things move hadn't happened in '94. The UK ban, the Oz ban. None of that had gone down. We just weren't aware.

2: Internet. ...

There is a lot different this time. We're aware, and we're way better organized. Gun owners have changed and the NRA has changed.

There's truth to what you say. Still, I wonder.

In the 1970s, I can remember speaking to the local John Birch Society on the evils of gun control and helping organize a letter-writing campaign about some piece of proposed legislation. I don't even remember what it was. I was 16.

When FOPA passed I was glued to CSPAN so I could watch the final vote. I saw and heard the voice vote that overwhelmingly went against inclusion of the ban on new machine gun manufacturing and then saw the gavel drop and heard that the measure had passed, despite the obvious lie that was.

I remember the NRA bloodletting in Cincinnati.

I think the anti-gun folks have been better organized at the political pressure points for a long, long time. I think the NRA has had more members for a long time but that the organization has fumbled way too many times. They've won mostly through grass-roots activism in the flyover country that has kept votes close but on the right side. They've won simply because 200 years of history and culture has been a big hill for the antis to climb.

I consider the post-Newtown USA to be the first test of an NRA that seems to finally be "getting it" but they're damn late to the party and, to us oldtimers, have screwed up so often in the past that we're wary. Still, they're the only player in the game. I recognize that; see my sig.

Seeing this in Colorado and seeing how it's actively being pushed in Texas (google "Battleground Texas") is beyond disheartening.

I do what I can but I'm tired. My good wishes go out to Colorado. I like that state. It's gorgeous and I like the way I get razzed for being a Texan. I've met plenty of great people there and they deserve better. Even the not-so-great deserve better.

I hope we can learn enough from this to get better organized in Texas and prevent this whole "Your rights are icky and make me feel uncomfortable" attitude from taking hold in Austin. Part of me wants to move to Argentina but I love Texas too much. I guess I'm going to have to get back in shape and get involved again, as in doing something more than just writing checks. If any good comes of the tragedy unfolding in Colorado, at least it's getting me off my ass. Maybe some others can make good use of the motivation, too.

cbigclarke · Mar 12, 2013

I think the organizing must start here! This is the grass roots effort.

CO is falling as we speak

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