Y'all ready for FedCoin™?

[MountainGirl]

Honestly, it doesn’t really matter, even today. Even though US greenback dollars are the official currency of the United States, there’s no requirement for a state or private individual to conduct business solely in USD. The only entity that is requires to conduct business in USD or USD equivalents is the US government.

For example, when the US Treasury accepted payments from my bank in Italy for tax purposes, an intermediate ForEx broker was involved to convert the Euros to USD after the money left my Poste Italia account and before it hit the US Treasury. The intermediary set the exchange rate and made their money of the delta. I simply instructed that the US government had to receive $XXX.XX and PO and their ForEx sent enough EUR to cover the transaction.

Most of this stuff strips down to whether or not two parties can settle on a means for the values to be exchanged.

Right. Your Euros had to be converted to USD to make the transfer.

I'm just not sure that HEB would be willing (or eventually even be allowed to) convert your 10-round mag of 9mm (traded for that can of beans) into USD - to satisfy their record keeping requirements for financial statements/taxes/etc.

Not trying to split hairs, here. I just have no doubts that the .gov will establish and enforce whatever regulations it needs to maintain control over what we buy and when.

Who knows what's ahead. Maybe there'll be shady intermediaries in the parking lots outside HEBs (with outlandish exchange rates) that will 'buy' your ammo for USD - so HEB can sell those beans to you, in their now required USD, and you can eat.

 

[MountainGirl]

There are a few retailers accepting bitcoin. skidtactial.com comes to mind. Not sure how they price, never used it myself.

Yeppers - it's growing. A friend of our in rural AZ buys his feed in person from a place that accepts Bitcoin.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…Not trying to split hairs, here. I just have no doubts that the .gov will establish and enforce whatever regulations it needs to maintain control over what we buy and when….

Again, HEB can legally accept whatever they want for payment of goods and services. The only time they have a requirement to conduct business in USDs is with the US government.

If they want to barter an tomahawk for a can if beans, they can….they just have to eventually convert that tomahawk to USDs so they can pay FITW and other payroll taxes.

This is why some sole props and other small business accept a trade/barter at below market value as payment.

 

[MountainGirl]

Again, HEB can legally accept whatever they want for payment of goods and services. The only time they have a requirement to conduct business in USDs is with the US government.

If they want to barter an tomahawk for a can if beans, they can….they just have to eventually convert that tomahawk to USDs so they can pay FITW and other payroll taxes.

This is why some sole props and other small business accept a trade/barter at below market value as payment.

Today, yes. And with God's grace it would always be this way.

I guess I'm too pessimistic. I can smell it changing from here.

Enjoyable conversation, thanks

 

[TheDan]

The value of the goods, not the monetary unit. If you take HEB gold, lead, 9mm ammo, or crypto, HEB will tell you that’s an acceptable monetary unit. Bring USD or a debit or credit card and they will charge your debit or credit card in USD.

If I’m selling land for USD and you offer me gold, ypu might as well have brought Mexican pesos I’ll pass or make it so advantageous for me due to the work I have to do get USDs from a stack of gold because I’m in the land business, not the gold business. Otherwise, if you want the deal you dick with getting USD, because 1USD = 1USD.

Cam was asking specifically in the scenario of "if paper money is worthless". Things would have to be pretty fucked up to get to that point, and to your comment below it's unlikely to ever be completely worthless as you have to pay taxes with it.

There is a recent example of this, tho...

The only time they have a requirement to conduct business in USDs is with the US government.

Yep, in many countries the only value the currency has is that the locals are forced to pay their taxes with it. We've been in a unique position for the past several decades in that US currency has value beyond the US tax base as it is the standard for international settlement. As international usage wains the value is going to revert back to just the tax base. That's going to be a rude awaking for a lot of folks. If the long standing American spirit of tax protests comes back that base will collapse.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…[USD] currency has value beyond the US tax base as it is the standard for international settlement. As international usage wains the value is going to revert back to just the tax base...

That’s cute. There’s only 8 major currencies utilized as reserve currencies; USD, GBP, Euro, Yen, AUD, CAD, and the Chinese Renminbi. The USD makes up 59% of the world’s reserves, the Euro 19%, the Yen and GBP about 5% each. The other 4 get about 2.5% each.

If the USD’s value collapses to the point it’s worthless, that means the US Government will have entirely collapsed or the US has ceased to exist. There will be much bigger problems to deal with, truly existential problems.

Bartering is a novel idea, but the vast majority of the world’s population will be reduced to the floor of the basement of Maslow’s hierarchy; within 3 weeks mass global depopulation starts occurring as storeable food supplies dwindle away and most fresh food rots; the elderly, infirm, weak, and unfit are the first to go. Within days, every Type 1 diabetic dies.

Utilities won’t have people coming in to run the plants because they are focused on survival, so the entire electricity based infrastructure, including what powers the stuff that allows digital currencies to be exchanged with other people turns into a relic. The 92 nuclear power plants in the US likely hold out the longest, but their output isn’t enough to power the grid. Once the people stop coming in, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, and Chernobyl are bug splats compared to the amount of radiation that gets released.

No fuel pumps work so no heavy equipment can be used to bury the dead. Corpses litter the landscape and begin to rot. Disease now breaks out and without modern medical care, depopulation increases by an order of magnitude. Weekly.

Commercial agriculture stops dead in it’s tracks, as does international trade because if there’s no power or fuel and no way to pay for goods and services, shipping companies just bypass the port.

Defenseless, Cartels attempt to take over the Southwest. They die, for a myriad of reasons. The Russians and Chinese invade. It takes them decades or more to try to resurrect the US power infrastructure because all the major stuff takes that long to repair, re-engineer, or replace. While surrounded by a nuclear wasteland.

But digital currency saves the day? Not happening.

 

[MountainGirl]

Cam was asking specifically in the scenario of "if paper money is worthless".

I took his question to mean if paper money was worthless, rather than the whole USD system as being worthless.

Sweden leads the way to becoming a 'cashless' society - with Norway, Finland and New Zealand following close behind:

The cashless society – Sweden leads the way | sweden.se

In Sweden, technology is close to making cash a thing of the past. The question is – is everyone aboard with the cashless society?

sweden.se

********

The gov can't track or control buyers' cash purchases except through retailer/vendor reporting requirements <--which may be in place at some point, they're not now.

Some preppers keep a supply of cash on hand - not because they think the economy or USD will collapse, but to stay under the radar of the increasingly oppressive govt and loss of privacy.

When the US has only digital currency (FedCoin, bitcoin, etc), then it is game over, imo, if the game hasn't already ended.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I took his question to mean if paper money was worthless, rather than the whole USD system as being worthless.

This.
Sorry I'm not as eloquent as some of you fellers.....

 

[MountainGirl]

This.
Sorry I'm not as eloquent as some of you fellers.....

Pfft. I'll trade eloquence for comprehension all day long.
I've come to feel I lived in the best of times. (I'm 68)
It's not easy watching things decline, but I'm guessing hoping that I'll be long dead before Cash is outlawed completely. It's the only way, at the moment, to have a semblance of privacy - outside our gate.

 

[toddnjoyce]

From a practical aspect, greenbacks can’t be outlawed in the US; each one is backed, in perpetuity, by the full faith and credit of the United States.

I could go on about it, but there’s no real reason to.

 

[John Sam Rayburn]

If the USD’s value collapses to the point it’s worthless, that means the US Government will have entirely collapsed or the US has ceased to exist.

...But digital currency saves the day? Not happening.

The U.S. Government will never cease to exist. It will only shrink suddenly.

What's coming when Uncle Sugar's credit card stops working is "Fast Balkanization", similar to the break-up of the mighty Soviet Union into regional authorities.

Regional Authorities like Texas, California, Seattle, Chicago, et al. will revert to commodity barter for a year, then hard currencies like gold and silver for a few years, and then more sophisticated systems as rebuilding continues.

Eventually, they will adopt whatever currency they decide works best for their particular situation. We want their National Currencies to end up being Bitcoin like in El Salvador (and soon Argentina).

We specifically designed Bitcoin to destroy the Global Banking Cartel. It's been our plan all along, and They know it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…
Regional Authorities like Texas, California, Seattle, Chicago, et al. will revert to commodity barter for a year, then hard currencies like gold and silver for a few years, and then more sophisticated systems as rebuilding continues.

Eventually, they will adopt whatever currency they decide works best for their particular situation. We want their National Currencies to end up being Bitcoin like in El Salvador (and soon Argentina).

See Article 1, Sections 8 and 10. Then pass me a tumbler of what you’re drinking.

 

[MountainGirl]

From a practical aspect, greenbacks can’t be outlawed in the US; each one is backed, in perpetuity, by the full faith and credit of the United States.

I could go on about it, but there’s no real reason to.

Very true!

It might not matter though, if it's outlawed or not, if vendors wont accept greenbacks for payment. Go try paying your Verizon bill with cash at one of their outlets. They require it to be converted into digital payment - just like your Euros needed conversion.

 

[John Sam Rayburn]

See Article 1, Sections 8 and 10. Then pass me a tumbler of what you’re drinking.

" Muh Constatooshun !! "

lol

 

[toddnjoyce]

Very true!

It might not matter though, if it's outlawed or not, if vendors wont accept greenbacks for payment. Go try paying your Verizon bill with cash at one of their outlets.

Not according to published company policy.

Paying your Verizon mobile bill FAQs | Verizon

Get answers to questions about payment options (auto pay), billing due dates, when late fees are applied and how to make payments for a disconnected account.

www.verizon.com

But either way, go to 7-eleven and use their bill pay as well.

 

[toddnjoyce]

" Muh Constatooshun !! "

lol

View attachment 401707

If the Constitution fails, the USG fails and no amount or type of USD will hold value. At that point, we’re back to societal collapse.

 

[TheDan]

If the USD’s value collapses to the point it’s worthless, that means the US Government will have entirely collapsed or the US has ceased to exist. There will be much bigger problems to deal with, truly existential problems.

That's why I said "Things would have to be pretty fucked up to get to that point"

This.
Sorry I'm not as eloquent as some of you fellers.....

oh... well value wise there's no difference between the digital USD and a paper FRN. I don't really see that changing even after full blown CBDC. I know a lot of people think the gov will make it illegal to keep using, but I don't see that happening at all. It doesn't have to. They'll just ramp down printing until it's not in common use anymore. If you deposit cash to your bank account, it'll be converted to digital. Eventually you'll be branded a kook if you keep using paper currency. A lot of businesses are going cashless anyway so we're a good way there already.

 

[MountainGirl]

Not according to published company policy.

....

My experience occurred in real life.

 

[MountainGirl]

That's why I said "Things would have to be pretty fucked up to get to that point"

oh... well value wise there's no difference between the digital USD and a paper FRN. I don't really see that changing even after full blown CBDC. I know a lot of people think the gov will make it illegal to keep using, but I don't see that happening at all. It doesn't have to. They'll just ramp down printing until it's not in common use anymore. If you deposit cash to your bank account, it'll be converted to digital. Eventually you'll be branded a kook if you keep using paper currency. A lot of businesses are going cashless anyway so we're a good way there already.

Right. They're already doing that.
Look how much banks' reporting requirements have changed for cash withdrawals.

 

[Eastexasrick]

That’s cute. There’s only 8 major currencies utilized as reserve currencies; USD, GBP, Euro, Yen, AUD, CAD, and the Chinese Renminbi. The USD makes up 59% of the world’s reserves, the Euro 19%, the Yen and GBP about 5% each. The other 4 get about 2.5% each.

If the USD’s value collapses to the point it’s worthless, that means the US Government will have entirely collapsed or the US has ceased to exist. There will be much bigger problems to deal with, truly existential problems.

Bartering is a novel idea, but the vast majority of the world’s population will be reduced to the floor of the basement of Maslow’s hierarchy; within 3 weeks mass global depopulation starts occurring as storeable food supplies dwindle away and most fresh food rots; the elderly, infirm, weak, and unfit are the first to go. Within days, every Type 1 diabetic dies.

Utilities won’t have people coming in to run the plants because they are focused on survival, so the entire electricity based infrastructure, including what powers the stuff that allows digital currencies to be exchanged with other people turns into a relic. The 92 nuclear power plants in the US likely hold out the longest, but their output isn’t enough to power the grid. Once the people stop coming in, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, and Chernobyl are bug splats compared to the amount of radiation that gets released.

No fuel pumps work so no heavy equipment can be used to bury the dead. Corpses litter the landscape and begin to rot. Disease now breaks out and without modern medical care, depopulation increases by an order of magnitude. Weekly.

Commercial agriculture stops dead in it’s tracks, as does international trade because if there’s no power or fuel and no way to pay for goods and services, shipping companies just bypass the port.

Defenseless, Cartels attempt to take over the Southwest. They die, for a myriad of reasons. The Russians and Chinese invade. It takes them decades or more to try to resurrect the US power infrastructure because all the major stuff takes that long to repair, re-engineer, or replace. While surrounded by a nuclear wasteland.

But digital currency saves the day? Not happening.

I know this is an abridged version. But it would still get an A+ for a book report on a Robert Heinlein novel.