Would this have been a violation?

[GKC]

Yesterday, I went to the local gun shop and bought a new SA Mil Spec Stainless Government Model 1911. On the way home, I stopped at a Jiffy Lube to get the oil changed in my Expedition. I do have a small gun safe in the car, but the 1911 wouldn't fit in it (the gun I normally carry in the car is a S&W Shield, which gets locked in the safe if I need to leave it in the car.) There is no trunk, and the console doesn't lock. (On reflection, the glove box does lock, and I could have taken the pistol out of the case, and locked the pistol in the glove box...but the ignition key opens the glove box, and the attendant obviously has to have the ignition key.) I didn't want to leave the gun in the car, unsecured, since customers cannot wait in their cars, and have to go to a waiting room out of sight of the bays. The gun was in manufacturer's plastic case, unloaded, the gun still had the tags on it, I had a receipt showing I just purchased it, plus it was in an opaque plastic bag, so no one could see what was inside the bag. I decided to carry it into the waiting room with me. The oil change was completed without incident, and I went on my way.

I was wondering if this would be a violation of some sort? I can't see that it would be "open carry." If you can carry concealed off body, like in a purse, then carrying an unloaded gun inside a case which is inside an opaque bag shouldn't be an issue, I assume.

If I didn't have a CHL, though, would that have been a problem? It wouldn't seem so, given that it was not loaded and considering the circumstances; what do you think?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

 

[JADB]

I acutally like the question but I too am going to get my

I'll be willing to bet though tht the first question that is going to get asked is, what was wrong with just leaving it in the car, in the backseat, still in the bag? Theft? I mean it's a Jiffy Lube, the car is mostly likely never out of your sight. In fear that the tech will get it and go on a shooting spree inside the store? Just asking....

 

[Driller]

+1

 

[biglucky]

I acutally like the question but I too am going to get my

I'll be willing to bet though tht the first question that is going to get asked is, what was wrong with just leaving it in the car, in the backseat, still in the bag? Theft? I mean it's a Jiffy Lube, the car is mostly likely never out of your sight. In fear that the tech will get it and go on a shooting spree inside the store? Just asking....

This is actually my question, thanks for asking it for me...

 

[TXARGUY]

You were not at all in violation with it being inside the case while you were in the jiffy lube waiting area. All anyone would be able to see would have been a plastic case with the manufacturers name on the side. No one would have any way of knowing what was actually inside the case unless you opened it.

 

[GKC]

I'll be willing to bet though tht the first question that is going to get asked is, what was wrong with just leaving it in the car, in the backseat, still in the bag? Theft? I mean it's a Jiffy Lube, the car is mostly likely never out of your sight. In fear that the tech will get it and go on a shooting spree inside the store? Just asking....

The car IS out of sight...the bays are not visible from the waiting area, in this particular store. Is it irresponsible to leave a weapon (albeit unloaded and with no ammunition in the car to load it) unsecured and out of sight, when others have access to the car? I was not concerned about theft per se...I mean, it would be immediately obvious if the gun was gone when my car was brought out of the bay...but more concerned about leaving a gun unsecured and out of my sight and control, even though it was unloaded. It probably could have remained in the back seating area, and would not have been detected at all. If anything, in this day and time, I was more worried about the tech and/or facility manager being alarmed that I had a gun in the car, had they noticed.

Since you can carry concealed off body, I can't see how carrying an unloaded gun inside a case, and the case inside an opaque bag, could be considered open carry. That is the first part of my question.

The second part, which is hypothetical, is if a person didn't have a CHL, would this situation have been a violation?

 

[GKC]

You were not at all in violation with it being inside the case while you were in the jiffy lube waiting area. All anyone would be able to see would have been a plastic case with the manufacturers name on the side. No one would have any way of knowing what was actually inside the case unless you opened it.

Actually, there was nothing on the plastic bag....the gun shop uses an opaque plain bag, no indications or marks of any kind to denote where it came from, what it contains, etc. Not even a store brand. The SA case was inside the plastic bag. The gun was inside the SA case, which was inside the plastic bag.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

The car IS out of sight...the bays are not visible from the waiting area, in this particular store. Is it irresponsible to leave a weapon (albeit unloaded and with no ammunition in the car to load it) unsecured and out of sight, when others have access to the car? I was not concerned about theft per se...I mean, it would be immediately obvious if the gun was gone when my car was brought out of the bay...but more concerned about leaving a gun unsecured and out of my sight and control, even though it was unloaded. It probably could have remained in the back seating area, and would not have been detected at all. If anything, in this day and time, I was more worried about the tech and/or facility manager being alarmed that I had a gun in the car, had they noticed.

Since you can carry concealed off body, I can't see how carrying an unloaded gun inside a case, and the case inside an opaque bag, could be considered open carry. That is the first part of my question.

The second part, which is hypothetical, is if a person didn't have a CHL, would this situation have been a violation?

This is what I thought was the situation in the first place, I thought you asked because you did not have a CHL.

 

[GKC]

This is what I thought was the situation in the first place, I thought you asked because you did not have a CHL.

Sorry for the confusion. No, I was asking a two-part question, which I could have made clear in the original post. Obviously (I hope) if one has a CHL, then carrying an unloaded gun inside a hard plastic case that you cannot see through, and that inside an opaque plastic bag that you cannot see through, wouldn't be considered open carry. Since you can carry concealed off body, I think that would have been covered.

It made me wonder, though, if someone didn't have a CHL, would this situation have been a violation of the law? That was the second, hypothetical part.

 

[TXARGUY]

Actually, there was nothing on the plastic bag....the gun shop uses an opaque plain bag, no indications or marks of any kind to denote where it came from, what it contains, etc. Not even a store brand. The SA case was inside the plastic bag. The gun was inside the SA case, which was inside the plastic bag.

That's even better. I understood that the handgun was wrapped in the plastic INSIDE of the case. The case being in an opaque bag is even better. With your CHL you could have had it loaded and ready to go. There was no violation because you have your CHL and you kept it concealed. That's exactly how its supposed to work.

 

[majormadmax]

As long as the gun is not loaded and in the case, you're fine.

But get a CHL, it makes situations like this nothing to worry about.

But your avatar reminds me of Paul Sr. from American Chopper, which is bothersome! hnoes:

Cheers! M2

 

[GKC]

That's even better. I understood that the handgun was wrapped in the plastic INSIDE of the case. The case being in an opaque bag is even better. With your CHL you could have had it loaded and ready to go. There was no violation because you have your CHL and you kept it concealed. That's exactly how its supposed to work.

Thanks...I had assumed that would be the case (no pun intended.)

However, what about someone who didn't have a CHL? Would that have been a violation of the law? I can see where it might be...I read the applicable law, and it doesn't make a distinction about loaded or unloaded. However, I think an argument could be made re intent and purpose.

Not a question I'd be eager to deal with, in reality!

 

[alexrex20]

He does have a CHL, and did nothing illegal.

For the record, I would not leave it in the car either, specifically to prevent theft.

 

[GKC]

But your avatar reminds me of Paul Sr. from American Chopper, which is bothersome! hnoes:

I'm actually much better looking than he is...but my personality is about the same, according to my wife and kids!

 

[Bithabus]

If you did not have a CHL, then I believe whether it would have been a violation would depend on how badly your vehicle needed that oil change. A person can buy a gun and carry it home, and it is OK to make stops which are necessary to the journey.

 

[Charlie]

If you have a CHL and it is concealed, and you had it in you hands, I would certainly think there would be no violation. Honest question.......being "loaded" is mentioned several times but is that an issue leagally? I realize it could be a safety issue but, if one carries a loaded pistol in a "fanny pack", what would be the difference?

 

[JADB]

You were not at all in violation with it being inside the case while you were in the jiffy lube waiting area. All anyone would be able to see would have been a plastic case with the manufacturers name on the side. No one would have any way of knowing what was actually inside the case unless you opened it.

While you might be correct, this answer seems to be more along the lines of, "your not in violation becuase nobody knew what it was."

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

wastherea 30;06 sign? it was in the case correct ? then no it wouldnt have

 

[GKC]

If you have a CHL and it is concealed, and you had it in you hands, I would certainly think there would be no violation. Honest question.......being "loaded" is mentioned several times but is that an issue leagally? I realize it could be a safety issue but, if one carries a loaded pistol in a "fanny pack", what would be the difference?

I'm not a lawyer, but as I re-read the laws this morning, there was no distinction made as to the handgun being loaded or not. I guess the presumption in the law is that anyone carrying a gun would carry it loaded.