What situations are valid to use your right to pull your firearm?

[Texan2]

I just took my class over the weekend and from what I heard its going to be a big pain if your ass if you pull the trigger. Even if you or your loved one is being beat or stabbed; If you elect to pull the trigger and you kill the bad guy, you are going to be facing a lot of court time and the cost will be enormous! Even if you win the criminal case, you are not going to win the civil case. You are going to have the bad guys mom, dad, sister, uncle, aunt etc. suing you for wrongful death.

WhooHoo we all have guns and can carry them but, your ass is grass if you elect to protect yourself or a loved one, and this may sound cold but helping a third party almost seems out the question. The odds are completely against you when helping out a third party. We'd all be better off leaving the gun at home and taking an ass whoopin or getting stabbed. At least if you have insurance that will cover most of the cost and if you dont have insurance the state can't deny you medical attention.

If you pull the trigger you are in deep shit. This isnt the movies were the scene skips all the legal stuff and its a happy ending. this is real life and if you take someone else's no matter the situation you are in for years of heartache. The story will end a hell of a lot better if you are a victim, rather than an unsung hero.

The only way that gun on your hip is going to benefit you is if some shiz is going down and you draw your weapon and it allows you or whoever is near enough time to get away. You pull the trigger and you are no longer a victim. You are a murderer or you attempted to murder the man trying to rob or ultimately murder you.

Yeah, I know its easy to say that I will let the jury work it out but, there is a defense team who's job it is to convince the jury that you could have done something else. That is there sole job!

I am at complete odds with this whole carrying a gun notion. Its almost as if the criminal has more rights than we do. Maybe because we have more to loose than a scumbag that has nothing to loose. Then if you kill him you are mark by all your peers as the guy that killed another and, thats something you have to wake up and go to bed every night with that moment you pulled the trigger on your mind until you die!

Sorry for the rant, my dog just pissed on the floor

Well I have seen folks legally fire their weapon and hit an intruder or attacker and be no billed by a grand jury, thats not to say you wont have legal expenses, but thats better than being dead. At least they get to go see their families again.

I think the whole "heat" in this thread was that under certain circumstances you can legally draw you weapon in self defense and not legally have the right to pull the trigger. That is CHL 101....if some folks think that if they draw they are justified in shooting everytime, they are entitled to their opinion. Their opinion may not hold water in court but some folks will just have to learn that the hard way.
I try to keep an open mind, I hope my fellow 2A backers do the same.

 

[smschulz]

The only time you should draw your weapon is when you are in fear of your life at the time.
If after pull your weapon and that threat does not exist then you are not entitled to use that force.

My CHL instructor always said don't pull your weapon unless you are going (need) to use it.

If you are pulling it to 'scare' someone with no intention of using it then that is very dangerous to you.
It is meant to be a last resort only where you have no other choice.

I thought I would clarify that for those who take every statement so literally and can't digest the thought.

 

[Eli]

The way I see it no matter what the law is, if you draw your weapon someone better be in dire need of getting shot. If this is not the case, keep your weapon holstered and de-escalate the situation.

If I draw my weapon, someone is going to die. If they do not need hot lead ventilation, then the weapon isn't even going to get touched.

I am in complete agreement with this statement.
Pulling your piece when you don't need to shoot somebody is a good way to get arrested, or worse, get disarmed and killed. Not to mention pulling your piece is a real good way to escalate a situation at a nuclear rate. If you pull your gun, be 100% ready to use it, do NOT hesitate. Call me old-school or ignorant or whatever, but if I have to draw then somebody isn't walking away.
This thread has brought up cops, I've known a lot of cops, my father was a cop, and I've been TCLEOSE certified. Old-school cops will not break leather unless needed. Ask a cop in his 50s or older how many times he's drawn on the job, he might be able to could it on his fingers after 30 years. Ask one of these 20-something trigger-happy jackasses - that pass an amazingly easy "psychological examination" (think scan-tron) - how many times they've drawn in the past year and the number is likely to exceed the months.
This thread has once again brought out a bunch of limp-wristed types on this board that are in serious need of testosterone injection.

Eli

 

[Texan2]

The only time you should draw your weapon is when you are in fear of your life at the time.
If after pull your weapon and that threat does not exist then you are not entitled to use that force.

We are in agreement

I am in complete agreement with this statement.
Pulling your piece when you don't need to shoot somebody is a good way to get arrested, or worse, get disarmed and killed. Not to mention pulling your piece is a real good way to escalate a situation at a nuclear rate. If you pull your gun, be 100% ready to use it, do NOT hesitate. Call me old-school or ignorant or whatever, but if I have to draw then somebody isn't walking away.
This thread has brought up cops, I've known a lot of cops, my father was a cop, and I've been TCLEOSE certified. Old-school cops will not break leather unless needed. Ask a cop in his 50s or older how many times he's drawn on the job, he might be able to could it on his fingers after 30 years. Ask one of these 20-something trigger-happy jackasses - that pass an amazingly easy "psychological examination" (think scan-tron) - how many times they've drawn in the past year and the number is likely to exceed the months.
This thread has once again brought out a bunch of limp-wristed types on this board that are in serious need of testosterone injection.

Eli

My friend, I know cops in their 20's, 30's 40's and 50's, actual working cops who still make cases everyday. I know cops from big cities, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Houston and small towns a counties. I know guys that work for DPS and guys that work for Federal agencies and none, absolutely ZERO, can count on their fingers, how many times they have drawn their weapon in their career. (unless they are very new officers)
I admire that your father was an officer, but exactly how does being "TCLEOSE certified" make YOU an expert on how often officers should draw their weapon?
Officers draw their weapons regularly to clear houses, to clear a vehicle that has dark tint and an unresponsive driver, they draw when a driver refuses orders to exit a vehicle or show his hands, they draw when suspects refuse to take their hands out of their pockets, they draw when they are covering the exit to a building for other officers.....I could go on and on. I have been an officer for many years and have a few years yet to go and have drawn my weapon countless times. I would not have been warranted had I shot someone everytime I drew. And thank god that most folks draw and often do hesitate and re-assess before firing. Quite often it is the prudent thing to do. Occasionally it is not.
This thread has brought out ZERO "limp wristed jack asses", just some folks that are having a discussion. Make wise decisions. It is the testoterone driven that find themselves as a defendant, because they pulled a trigger when they shouldn't have.
I would suggest taking it easy with the name calling...we are among friends here.

 

[TheDan]

The story will end a hell of a lot better if you are a victim, rather than an unsung hero.

To me this is a big part of whats wrong with society. Not saying you're wrong about it... I just don't like it. Very few things truly upset me, but it upsets me a lot when someone actually chooses to be a victim or revels in being a victim.

 

[Texas42]

The only time you should draw your weapon is when you are in fear of your life at the time.
If after pull your weapon and that threat does not exist then you are not entitled to use that force.

My CHL instructor always said don't pull your weapon unless you are going (need) to use it.

If you are pulling it to 'scare' someone with no intention of using it then that is very dangerous to you.
It is meant to be a last resort only where you have no other choice.

I thought I would clarify that for those who take every statement so literally and can't digest the thought.

I don't think anyone here is promoting bluffing. I keep a round in the chamber and a full magazine. I only bluff at poker, and then only rarely. Unfortuneately, it has been a very long time since I've had a good game of poker.

I think it is also important to remember that this is an internet forum. It is very hard to communicate with just the words. People take others so literal because it is very hard not to. Most of our day-to-day communications is non-verbal.

 

[M. Sage]

I just took my class over the weekend and from what I heard its going to be a big pain if your ass if you pull the trigger. Even if you or your loved one is being beat or stabbed; If you elect to pull the trigger and you kill the bad guy, you are going to be facing a lot of court time and the cost will be enormous! Even if you win the criminal case, you are not going to win the civil case. You are going to have the bad guys mom, dad, sister, uncle, aunt etc. suing you for wrongful death.

Woah, woah. Who told you this? You've been misinformed. Section 83.001 of the Civil Practice and Remedies Code reads thus:

Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

If you're justified under the Penal Code to use force (including deadly force), you are immune from civil liability for injury or death that stems from your use of force. Basically, the criminal you shoot or their next of kin could sue you for the holes and blood stains in his clothing, but that's about the limits of it.

 

[Texas1911]

Everyone needs to calm down with the finger pointing.

 

[txinvestigator]

Check out TXInvestigators blog with the CHL laws. Short version would be, don't pull it out unless you truly felt your life was in immediate danger.

I did not address use of force laws yet. However, I would not state that.

 

[txinvestigator]

As a former LE you should know better.

Uhh, no, he is right on.

Don't you think there is a difference in situations to pull a weapon as a Police Officer and having to defend your life as an individual?

The law is the same for peace officers as it is for citizens, regarding this issue.

 

[txinvestigator]

The only time you should draw your weapon is when you are in fear of your life at the time.

That is incorrect. In fact, the penal code does not make a justification for using deadly force if you "are in fear of your life". You do not have to be being attacked with deadly force to display a weapon, even a gun.
If after pull your weapon and that threat does not exist then you are not entitled to use that force.

My CHL instructor always said don't pull your weapon unless you are going (need) to use it.

I agree. However "using" it does not always equal "shooting" it.

 

[txinvestigator]

Woah, woah. Who told you this? You've been misinformed. Section 83.001 of the Civil Practice and Remedies Code reads thus:



If you're justified under the Penal Code to use force (including deadly force), you are immune from civil liability for injury or death that stems from your use of force. Basically, the criminal you shoot or their next of kin could sue you for the holes and blood stains in his clothing, but that's about the limits of it.

You are partially correct. You can be sued. The civil court will decide if your use of force was justified under the penal code. A grand jury no bill, even a not guilty verdict in a criminal trial would not keep a person from filing suit and your having to answer. The civil code does not require the civil court to even consider the decisions of other courts.

 

[txinvestigator]

There could be many circumstances where you would be justified in displaying your handgun when deadly force is not yet justified.

 

[ReVrEnD_0341]

M. Sage, come on boss, you know how these topics will get even with our group of great folks.

This has been a good topic for the forum. I am here to make you think, so check the egos at the door.

 

[Texan2]

There could be many circumstances where you would be justified in displaying your handgun when deadly force is not yet justified.

My whole point from the beginning summed up in one sentence...

 

[smschulz]

My whole point from the beginning summed up in one sentence...

Nice to know.

 

[Big country]

My whole point from the beginning summed up in one sentence...

I hate it when he does that! I'm in compleat argreement with you and TI on this.

 

[txinvestigator]

M. Sage, come on boss, you know how these topics will get even with our group of great folks.

This has been a good topic for the forum. I am here to make you think, so check the egos at the door.

[heavy sarcasm] THANK GOODNESS YOU ARE HERE [/heavy sarcasm]

 

[willygene]

Texascop2 how many times did say that over and over i lost count oh well.

 

[M. Sage]

M. Sage, come on boss, you know how these topics will get even with our group of great folks.

This has been a good topic for the forum. I am here to make you think, so check the egos at the door.

What ego?