What kind of training do you want?

[Wildcat Diva]

There is a four day A Girl and A Gun conference in April. Couple hundred dollars for training that my Girl and a Gun/NRA instructor says is several thousand dollars worth of training. I could pitch a tent where she will have an RV spot and save a hotel bill. I’m definitely interested.

ETA: well I see it’s $400.
https://www.agirlandagun.org/conference/

 

[Roach011]

Yes.
And I do shoot all of them frequently.

What about training doesn't interest you?

 

[Roach011]

I train mostly on my own. I find many exercises on the internet and train on the property or range. Not that many classes around here that I have found that I can find the time to join.

By definition you cannot train on your own. You can practice. Training is getting focused information and feedback from an expert in whatever topic. Practice is perfecting the techniques you've been trained on. Thoughts?

 

[Roach011]

Not a 1# concern but like at my LTC class I know I got flagged by 3 different people multiple times and the instructor did nothing about it.

My main concern is getting usable info and techniques that I can practice. Also having an instructor that is not some NRA fudd (also like my LTC class).

I agree. I personally consider NRA classes to be Basics type classes. IE: this is a gun, this is how it works. I consider LTC classes to not be classes or training as much as they are qualifications where they spend time giving you the answers first.

What have you done, if anything, to find classes that might interest you or expand your skill set?

 

[Roach011]

You'd be surprised how much you can learn from NRA Fudds that translates directly to every other discipline.I'm no class junkie. There have been a few low-level pistol classes aimed at defensive use. Of course, there was also the training required to get my NRA certs.

But the training I've most enjoyed, sought the most, and taken repeatedly is formal target shooting - standing on a line, holding a pistol in one hand, and trying to put all my shots in the 10-ring. Some may call it Fudd training but I call it learning to look at the front sight, press the trigger straight to the rear, and hit where I want. It's amazing how much that foundation helps when I want to shoot faster, or with two hands, or when moving, or ... etc.
Count me with Moonpie on this one. Bad back and bad knees makes all that falling to the ground, rolling around, twisting up, taking a knee and improvising positions into a non-starter for me.

I like to cite an example. Way more than a decade ago, I decided I wanted some useful, all-around rifle training. I wanted to learn to shoot from position. I wanted the basics reinforced. I wanted exposure to field work. I wanted enough technical info to challenge me, too. That sort of "generalist" class was pretty rare at the time. I did, however, find one school in Colorado that offered, according to their website, exactly what I was looking for. It was a full week and a bit expensive but I was ready to sign up.

Then I read the small print. For this class, you had to pay in full, in advance, the entire cost which, iirc, was several thousand dollars. Upon arrival to the class, you were required to sling your rifle and full pack and take a two-mile run on a woodlands trail, completing the task under a certain par time. If you failed to complete the run under the par time, you forfeited your entire tuition and would be immediately escorted off the property.

I don't remember the time. I do remember thinking that anyone over 50 or in less than peak physical condition would fail. And I remember that if these were the games that the "new riflemen" wanted to play, I'd just give up on trying to be any good with a rifle other than off a bench.

My point?

What keeps me from taking any training beyond the introductory level is the notion, far too common in the training industry, that normal people want to be trained to fight in the zombie apocalypse. Or at least that civilians want to be able to play soldier convincingly.

I don't need that. I need to know how to be aware so that I don't have to move, move so I don't have to draw, draw so I don't have to fire, hit if I don't have any other choice, and otherwise just get out uninjured. I consider that a "medium" bar to get over and perfectly adequate for civilians. What I see in the market are nothingburger courses that fail to teach the basics, hyped courses that promise to ninja-fy you, and almost nothing in between.

Somebody point me to some of those classes in the middle ground and I'll be happy to take more.

Very interesting.

1- fundamental classes are important but typically they only teach what you mentioned. Sight alignment, sight picture, trigger press. etc....When you get into "higher" levels of training you realize that you're being taught how to think and solve complex issues. I have never found an issue locating classes that don't require a hike and physical qualification....There are certainly classes that do require that stuff, but obviously you would just avoid that? What do you do, if anything to locate high quality training that suits your desires?

 

[Roach011]

How many firearms in my home? More than 10. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. I mainly shoot pistols. I have a husband and three sons who shoot.

I would probably need beginner to medium level training. Tactical, meaning, to me, how to gain advantage in a scenario so as to be able to defend self in a fight (which I know very little about). How to use factors about myself or my environment to my advantage, and how to shift my awareness and focus to what matters. How to develop muscle memory using strategies that will help me act efficiently and effectively in a self defense scenario I might be likely to encounter.

I’ll just take whatever training experiences I can get in matches at this point. I’ve barely got the basics down to where I’m becoming more accurate. I have to keep making adjustments in my grip, stance, etc. So more advanced and I would assume, more expensive, training will come later, if at all.[/QUO

it sounds to me like more time should be spent in a fundamentals type of class (focusing on shot placement and how to make that happen). What have you done, if anything to location those types of classes? Just for my reference, you can tell me what they fundamentals of shoot are?

some how i typed in the quote....

 

[Roach011]

Ben nails it again.

I might go for some simulator type stuff.
Not driving 100's of miles and paying big $$$ for it tho.

Training with all the full load out battle rattle gear, while good, is a waste of time for me.
1.) I do not have all that stuff and I seriously doubt I will ever need it. If the zombies attack I'm hosed. Not gonna buy it.
I'll make due with a murse.
2.) You're not gonna have all that stuff on you when it hits the fan.
If you're like me you'll be in shorts, Hawaiian shirt, and flip flops when it goes down.
3.) See#2. I'll train myself as I normally am.
4.) Knowing how to use your weapon is easy to learn.
Knowing when to use it isn't. That's the tricky part.

None other than Wyatt Earp said(paraphrasing here) It isn't always the quickest man that wins, it is the man that keeps his nerve and makes the shot.
That sort of sums up my training philosophy.

I think you're referring to force on force training. What do you consider to be "big money"?

no one is requiring you to take certain training. There are classes for every aspect of concealed carry under the sun. Few questions: 1) why would you assume you'd have to take a full battle kit type of class? 2) have you looked for classes that teach things you want to learn?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What kind of training do you want to take?

What training have you taken?

What keeps you from taking training?

please expand on any and all answers.

So Roach, maybe you might share with us "your" answers to these same questions.
Might help us going forward.

 

[Roach011]

So Roach, maybe you might share with us "your" answers to these same questions.
Might help us going forward.

1 - I want to take vehicle CQB by Centrifuge training, Force on Force classes w/ Aaron Cowan, Handgun classes with Steve Fisher and many many more. My list is long.

2 - i have taken: Trauma medicine through Dark Angel Medical, You suck its not the gun and foundation handgun through MDFI, Local concealed carry based class (was not good). I'm signed up to take a red dot focused performance handgun class (Scott Jedlinski), combat pistol class (Bill Blowers of Tap rack tactical), force on force (sage dynamics) and Concealed Carry tactics taught by Eric from Green Eye tactical. I also practice BJJ regularly to round out the combative aspect of personal defense.

3 - My budget is my budget so I'm limited in the classes i can take. I'm also limited by the equipment i have. At this point I've opted to move towards mastery of my primary life saving tool (handgun) rather than own rifles and shotguns. Additionally, quality instructors only come to town every now and then. I do what i can to help get classes scheduled locally but it doesn't always work.

I don't initially share this because I don't want to adversely effect the answers provided by others. I personally believe very strongly in training. If you're not learning, you're not living.

 

[easy rider]

By definition you cannot train on your own. You can practice. Training is getting focused information and feedback from an expert in whatever topic. Practice is perfecting the techniques you've been trained on. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you have to train before you can practice that training. Certainly I practice more then I train, but if it's something new, it's training. I can learn from others and train myself from what I've learned.

 

[BRD@66]

So Roach, maybe you might share with us "your" answers to these same questions.
Might help us going forward.

Heh. Thought you'd never ask.

 

[Roach011]

My thoughts are that you have to train before you can practice that training. Certainly I practice more then I train, but if it's something new, it's training. I can learn from others and train myself from what I've learned.

i'll try from a different angle. You cannot train yourself. By training yourself you presume to have the knowledge already that you are attempting to impart on yourself. IF that is true, you wouldn't require the training.

 

[easy rider]

i'll try from a different angle. You cannot train yourself. By training yourself you presume to have the knowledge already that you are attempting to impart on yourself. IF that is true, you wouldn't require the training.

I guess you're not reading what I'm saying. I can learn from others and train myself from what I've learned. I can train myself from a book if it's detailed enough. Training is not just mental, but also physical.

 

[Roach011]

I guess you're not reading what I'm saying. I can learn from others and train myself from what I've learned. I can train myself from a book if it's detailed enough. Training is not just mental, but also physical.

You receive the knowledge and training from others, you then practice what you've learned or been trained on. You can not train yourself. The knowledge must come from somewhere outside of yourself. Semantics, i know, but this is one of the biggest points people get hung up on and continually reject going to classes because. The fallacy of "well i'll just teach myself". It isn't possible.

Think about all the knowledge you could gather from a book. Then, think of all the knowledge you could gather from spending time with the author getting direct instruction. Taking classes is more valuable than reading a valuable book.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Makes sense, but reading a valuable book is still better than not, if one doesn't have the time or money.

 

[Roach011]

Makes sense, but reading a valuable book is still better than not, if one doesn't have the time or money.

Certainly! I would suggest however that for the individual who carries a gun for self defense, the time and money MUST exist. Consequence of failure dictates the necessity of proficiency.

 

[easy rider]

You receive the knowledge and training from others, you then practice what you've learned or been trained on. You can not train yourself. The knowledge must come from somewhere outside of yourself. Semantics, i know, but this is one of the biggest points people get hung up on and continually reject going to classes because. The fallacy of "well i'll just teach myself". It isn't possible.

Think about all the knowledge you could gather from a book. Then, think of all the knowledge you could gather from spending time with the author getting direct instruction. Taking classes is more valuable than reading a valuable book.

Learning is the knowledge, training is the application.

 

[Roach011]

Learning is the knowledge, training is the application.

we are going back and forth on terminology at this point but i think we are speaking the same language. This does represent an interesting "language barrier" we have when discussing this topic.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Heh. Thought you'd never ask.

I admit I was initially skeptical, but the thread does have it's merits....

 

[easy rider]

we are going back and forth on terminology at this point but i think we are speaking the same language. This does represent an interesting "language barrier" we have when discussing this topic.

I'm not going to argue that getting personal training from an instructor isn't the better course, but telling me I cannot train myself is fallacy.