Watching Someone You Love Die Sucks!

[Jon Payne]

Training in trauma medicine is a must IMO. I have a small trauma kit I carry in a cargo pocket. It has just a few items that can mean the difference between life and death. I keep this kit when I'm in uniform or not. My kit was put together by Dr. John Meade, it's not too bulky and one of the items I train with the most is the tourniquet, but you be surprised what you can do with duct tape! I will be repeating two medical courses over the next year. Yes, I think they are that important.

 

[Texasjack]

I am extremely glad that I'm not injured and y'all are the ones trying to keep me alive!

 

[skimeaux]

Is there ANY legal issue with a non medically trained person administering an IV? Good question TxInv. Yes, in the medical field there is. Legally you can not go above or beyond your training or beyond your protocols set forth by a medical director. For instance a basic E.M.T is not trained to start and administer an I. V. where as an E.M.T. Intermediate and Paramedic are. I have never thought of this being a non trained individual administering an I. V. to a family member in an emergency situation. I believe it would be illegal, depending on how far authorities would want to pursue the issue.

 

[kesmed2001]

We provide civilians with the knowledge and skill sets necessary to survive and excel throughout all phases of a gunfight. From the pre-fight mindset, to the actual shooting skills needed to manage the threat, to the after-action assessment. Statistically though, the average person is more likely to be injured in a motor vehicle crash than from a shooting or stabbing.

The foundation of knowledge and skill sets we cover are applicable across a wide variety of situations, as the principles of managing trauma are not limited to injuries from a gunfight or knifefight.

Our basic curriculum includes the following:

• Massive bleeding. What are the options? We will look at everything from direct pressure, to tourniquets, to blood clotting agents. Do you know how to use a tourniquet? How about putting one on yourself, one handed?
• Do you know how to open and maintain a person's airway, in various positions?
• How to splint broken limbs, using real equipment and improvised materials.
• How do you move a person to safety, if he can't walk?
• Can you do all this, while maintaining tactical awareness, appropriate movement and shooting back?
  

In all likelihood, if you are involved in a trauma situation you will likely be on your own for at least 15 minutes, longer if the scene is not secure. You will not have a team medic, and the only supplies available to you will be the gear that you have with you regularly or the gear that you can improvise. You or your loved one can sustain an injury that than be fatal if not treated within moments. What is the point of winning the fight or surviving the initial encounter if you or your loved one dies shortly thereafter?

We provide the know-how. Our instructors deal with trauma on a daily basis, and are experienced Emergency Medicine Physicians, Trauma Surgeons, and Paramedics, with a broad range of civilian, law enforcement, and military experience.

 

[kesmed2001]

Is there ANY legal issue with a non medically trained person administering an IV? Good question TxInv. Yes, in the medical field there is. Legally you can not go above or beyond your training or beyond your protocols set forth by a medical director. For instance a basic E.M.T is not trained to start and administer an I. V. where as an E.M.T. Intermediate and Paramedic are. I have never thought of this being a non trained individual administering an I. V. to a family member in an emergency situation. I believe it would be illegal, depending on how far authorities would want to pursue the issue.

What you said is not entirely true.

The Texas Good Samaritan Law limits the civil liability of persons administering emergency care in good faith at the scene of an emergency or in a health care facility. The law limits the civil liability of these persons unless their actions are willfully and wantonly negligent.

A trained medical professional is held to a higher standard.

Legal and liable are two different things.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

I was wating on the tire man when i was posting but i do know first aid
And uncle sugar taught me field first aid.
But for now that my limitation

 

[Younggun]

I've been trained on IVs in the past, wasn't that good at it. Went through 4 needles cause every time I romoved the cap I poked my finger. To make things worse my pincusion was the CSM who had invisible veins.

Really wasn't to bad once I got past the needle and somehow managed to get the vein on the first try but that was a few yrs back. I'm pretty rusty on it now.

 

[kesmed2001]

Putting in an IV and the use of replacement fluids is not nearly as important as controlling the source of bleeding.

We teach both skill sets, but we teach hemorrhage control first. A TQ takes up little room and can be carried everywhere.

Most civilians are not going to carry and are not going to need to carry an IV starter kit and IV fluids.

 

[TundraWookiee]

I think that all people should learn some sort of trauma care or first aid, not just those carrying guns, but I do agree with the overall spirit of the statement.

 

[SWJewellTN]

Are you suggesting first that no one should bother with this type of training because they will not be able to preform?

I disagree with that AND your premise about performance.

Are you suggesting that someone can go take a combat aid class and execute that training flawlessly even perhaps decades afterwards? We aren't talking about bumps and bruises here.

 

[kesmed2001]

But if its a aretery bleed there is nothing you can do any way,
Or nick a colon, lung, etc...

While it's true that severe hemorrhage from an extremity injury can kill you within a few minutes, stopping the bleeding can be accomplished by a simple technique that is easily to teach as well as master.

There are also a few thoracoabdominal injuries that can be fatal if not recognized and treated in the field. These skill sets are also easily to learn.

Don't sell yourself short thinking that there is nothing you can do.

 

[kesmed2001]

Are you suggesting that someone can go take a combat aid class and execute that training flawlessly even perhaps decades afterwards? We aren't talking about bumps and bruises here.

All skills are disposable if not practiced. Attending a trauma medicine class is not going to make you a lifesaver any more than attending a pistol class is going to make you a gunfighter. You need to be taught the information and skills and trained in its use, then you have to go and practice.

 

[SWJewellTN]

All skills are disposable if not practiced. Attending a trauma medicine class is not going to make you a lifesaver any more than attending a pistol class is going to make you a gunfighter. You need to be taught the information and skills and trained in its use, then you have to go and practice.

Precisely the point that the other member missed. Most people who would take the class would fail to practice - which would also fail in the event of a tragedy. Then there's that sticky point of the deep emotional connection with the patient clouding the mind.

 

[Younggun]

There are simple basics that can save a life. And for those who have the right mindset emotional connection is not goin to make them forget everthing. I know for a fact that if something were to happen involving my loved ones, I WILL NOT LET THEM DIE!

Yes, I need to brush up on a few things but for bleeding I'll be damned if I will hold them and cry while they bleed. I'm gonna stop it.

Yes that may be arrogant and no I may not be able to but those thoughts only hurt you. That attitude towards certain things has made big differencess in the past.

So for those of you who doubt the effectiveness of good first aid training, even a class 1 or 2 times a year. What will your attitude be if a loved ones life depends on you. Are you going to crumble or will you do what it takes. It's all about your mindset and you need to get the mindset before SHTF.

 

[Clockwork]

They MAY be allergic to something in the tampon - but for DAMN sure they're gonna die if they bleed out.

"Cause of death: tampon" sounds a lot less manly than "Cause of death: sucking chest wound".

I'd still rather have the tampon than die...

For me, I'm trained about as much as any non-medical personnel in the military are trained for "Self Aid & Buddy Care" and I've assisted with providing first aid as a volunteer firefighter, but I think that the entire situation would change if it were a loved one that were hurt. If it were another service member or a random person that gets into a car accident, that's one thing, but if it were my wife? My mother or father? It would be hard to detach myself from that emotionally.

 

[txinvestigator]

Precisely the point that the other member missed. Most people who would take the class would fail to practice - which would also fail in the event of a tragedy. Then there's that sticky point of the deep emotional connection with the patient clouding the mind.

There have been plenty of people who took a class and YEARS later had to use what they learned on a loved one and didn't just stare at the ground confused.

If that is your argument for not taking training; therein is the fail. We are talking about BASIC skills, not performing surgery. While I have seen people panic and fall to pieces in an emergency, I have also seen people with minimal training do exceedingly well.

 

[kesmed2001]

Precisely the point that the other member missed. Most people who would take the class would fail to practice - which would also fail in the event of a tragedy. Then there's that sticky point of the deep emotional connection with the patient clouding the mind.

Well there is that whole "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" quote, although "We fall to the level of training that we have mastered" is more accurate.

I think people understand that mastery of a skill takes hundreds if not thousands of repetitions.

There may be an understandable reluctance to seek out medical training as it is a tacit acknowledgment (or denial) that we are fragile beings, and that we or someone we care for could require life saving measures following some tragic incident.

The cost of training is negligible compared to the possible consequences of delayed action or failure to act.

The cost of supplies/equipment is also negligible. Sufficient gear can be acquired for much less than $50, although certainly there are options to have nicer things.

So if it isn't about the $$$, it has to be about the topic itself.