Warrants Let Agents Enter Homes Without Owner Knowing.

[San Antone RR]

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This isn't anti-police at all. This is pro-Constitution, pro-Freedom, pro-everything-our-nation-stands-for. Those who execute these types of searches ARE violating someone's rights, PERIOD. There's nothing vague about it.

+1000000

 

[berto40]

"...probable cause..." is the key debatable phrase in the 4th Amendment. Who defines it? Are there any limitations for probable cause?

 

[ROGER4314]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I lived through this some years back and I've posted about it before. I apologize for that and will sanitize the post to keep from posting violent statements. You can fill in the blank places yourself.

I worked at a military airbase in maintenance. One day, the "on base" FBI officers called all 177 Maintenance men together, announced that they KNEW we were all stealing and would begin systematically searching our homes......one-by-one. I don't know how to put this except that I went nuts. I began yelling profanities and threats not once but repeatedly. My buddies hauled me out of the area still yelling.

One other man stood up to them when they falsely accused him of taking drugs, he went over the desk to get at the officer. Neither of us was ever bothered again although some homes were searched. Neither one of us was fired or charged.

Something broke inside of my head that day. The line in the sand beyond with no one better cross is on the porch of my home. That line was drawn years ago and I'll lay my life down to defend it.

Simply put, It's not about who's right...........it's about who's left.

Flash

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

"...probable cause..." is the key debatable phrase in the 4th Amendment. Who defines it? Are there any limitations for probable cause?

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Yes, there's some discretion there. That's why you need to have a judge agree. BUT, random searches like the ones in Indiana are DEFINITELY illegal.

 

[Wolfwood]

Post #5 by rifletex91 was perfectly illustrated by post #9.

correct. yeah i kindof trailed off on that one. sorry!

It's only going to get worse. People now a days don't care what is happening in the world around them, they just care about themselves. This will be the downfall of the America we love. Sad but true. Fascism here we come!

this one...

 

[ryantx23]

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Yes, there's some discretion there. That's why you need to have a judge agree. BUT, random searches like the ones in Indiana are DEFINITELY illegal.

Ok,

How many of you guys have ever written search warrants? I write them all the time, and they are supported by probable cause, and sworn by Oath. The next step is they are reviewed and signed by a Judge. Do any of you guys see a problem in that process? That pretty much covers the 4th Amendment of the USC.

Let's not forget that Police Officers are sworn to uphold the Constitution, the laws of the state of Texas and their local city or county ordinances. Are there some bad eggs out there? Sure there are. But not as many as you might think.

And to ROGER4314, the Feds were talking to you guys for a reason. I'm sure that someone was stealing, otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to you guys to begin with. Obviously it wasn't you, but somebody, somewhere was guilty and taking stuff.

Things in the news most often then not get blown out of proportion and people need to remember that. Their job is to sell newspapers, not tell the truth.

In all my years as an LEO, I've never conducted a random search or even heard of anything like that.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Indiana (and several other states?) are doing random house searches now, and their state Supreme Court has approved it. This, along with the no knock entries is what is getting everyone worked up the most. Someone randomly busting into your house with no cause or no notification.

The "not knowing" searches bother me a little less because they do go through the process of getting a warrant, etc. Still, it completely violates the security of your private property, IMO. I'm not a legal scholar, I just play one on the internet. Still, this just seems inherently wrong.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Indiana (and several other states?) are doing random house searches now, and their state Supreme Court has approved it. This, along with the no knock entries is what is getting everyone worked up the most. Someone randomly busting into your house with no cause or no notification.

The "not knowing" searches bother me a little less because they do go through the process of getting a warrant, etc. Still, it completely violates the security of your private property, IMO. I'm not a legal scholar, I just play one on the internet. Still, this just seems inherently wrong.

This is seriously messed up!!!!!!

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

This is seriously messed up!!!!!!

Here's one article on the Sheriff's quote, also has links to the ruling
IN Sheriff: If We Need to Conduct RANDOM HOUSE to HOUSE Searches We Will | Today's Lead Story

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Here's one article on the Sheriff's quote, also has links to the ruling
IN Sheriff: If We Need to Conduct RANDOM HOUSE to HOUSE Searches We Will | Today's Lead Story

I appreciated the "anonymous quote" by the one Police chief!

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I appreciated the "anonymous quote" by the one Police chief!

"Speaking under the condition of anonymity, a local city Police Chief with 30 years experience in law enforcement... "

Right, like everyone in the area wouldn't know who that is, LOL

 

[ROGER4314]

And to ROGER4314, the Feds were talking to you guys for a reason. I'm sure that someone was stealing, otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to you guys to begin with. Obviously it wasn't you, but somebody, somewhere was guilty and taking stuff.

The FBI office was located on base and you bet there was stealing! It was the bosses! The bigger the boss, the bigger the thief. It wasn't worth your safety and health to speak up. So that's why they were going to search my house?

Similarly, somebody, somewhere is messing with dope. A casual bashing down of my door to see if it is me will result in lots of powder smoke. That event will write the last page of my life story. That's how it is.

Flash

 

[San Antone RR]

Similarly, somebody, somewhere is messing with dope. A casual bashing down of my door to see if it is me will result in lots of powder smoke. That event will write the last page of my life story. That's how it is.

Flash

Agreed.

 

[ryantx23]

And to ROGER4314, the Feds were talking to you guys for a reason. I'm sure that someone was stealing, otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to you guys to begin with. Obviously it wasn't you, but somebody, somewhere was guilty and taking stuff.

The FBI office was located on base and you bet there was stealing! It was the bosses! The bigger the boss, the bigger the thief. It wasn't worth your safety and health to speak up. So that's why they were going to search my house?

Similarly, somebody, somewhere is messing with dope. A casual bashing down of my door to see if it is me will result in lots of powder smoke. That event will write the last page of my life story. That's how it is.

Flash

ROGER4314,

The reason they didn't search your house is because they didn't have the right to. They were trying to bluff you guys in to giving consent to search is what it sounds like to me. If they had probable cause to search your home for the stolen property, they would have. That's their job. From your side of the story, and I'll take that as the truth, I don't think I would have tried using that tactic. It sounds like they were trying to save some time when they should have implanted an investigator and had them monitor the activity to find out exactly who was stealing and also who knew about it. (Somebody could be taking something, while another person was running interference and covering for them working in teams and that's part of the criminal conspiracy charges that they do).

And to Mexican Hippie, the "no knock" clause is written in to a search warrant to allow LE not to knock, announce their presence for a period of time that is dictated by case law before using forcible entry. It is written in to warrants and you have to have justification before a judge will sign it (somebody with a violent criminal history, member of a street gang, surveillance camera's and lots of other GOOD reasons). Just because someone has a no knock warrant, does not change the manner in which it's served other then NOT knocking, announcing and waiting a period of time before forcing entry. Instead its the team stacking up by the door, a breacher forcing entry and the team filing in to conduct the search. The rest is normal, you are wearing a distinct "police" uniform with emblems and insignia saying so and announcing yourself as you are going in and while you are in. NOT before you go in and give someone time to arm themselves, flush dope or the like.

 

[berto40]

ROGER4314,

The reason they didn't search your house is because they didn't have the right to. They were trying to bluff you guys in to giving consent to search is what it sounds like to me. If they had probable cause to search your home for the stolen property, they would have. That's their job. From your side of the story, and I'll take that as the truth, I don't think I would have tried using that tactic. It sounds like they were trying to save some time when they should have implanted an investigator and had them monitor the activity to find out exactly who was stealing and also who knew about it. (Somebody could be taking something, while another person was running interference and covering for them working in teams and that's part of the criminal conspiracy charges that they do).

And to Mexican Hippie, the "no knock" clause is written in to a search warrant to allow LE not to knock, announce their presence for a period of time that is dictated by case law before using forcible entry. It is written in to warrants and you have to have justification before a judge will sign it (somebody with a violent criminal history, member of a street gang, surveillance camera's and lots of other GOOD reasons). Just because someone has a no knock warrant, does not change the manner in which it's served other then NOT knocking, announcing and waiting a period of time before forcing entry. Instead its the team stacking up by the door, a breacher forcing entry and the team filing in to conduct the search. The rest is normal, you are wearing a distinct "police" uniform with emblems and insignia saying so and announcing yourself as you are going in and while you are in. NOT before you go in and give someone time to arm themselves, flush dope or the like.

Bluff or Coercion?

 

[London]

Not sure why there are two posts about this subject; sneak and peaks have been legal since the USA PATRIOT ACT was approved... it's old news, folks.

 

[San Antone RR]

Not sure why there are two posts about this subject; sneak and peaks have been legal since the USA PATRIOT ACT was approved... it's old news, folks.

2 different subjects that morphed into the same...

 

[ROGER4314]

The "Bluff" didn't work with me but it did change my life. It determined the exact point when life for me, becomes not worth living.

At Appleseed, they told of an old, very sick man who knew the Redcoats were going to capture his home. As they approached, he had the family prop him up on the porch and that's where he died....fighting it out with the legal forces of the King over the sanctity of his home.

He is the kind of patriot who formed this nation and his death is the reason we have the Second and Fourth Amendments in the Bill of Rights. If protecting that heritage was good enough for him, it's fine for me.

Flash

 

[308nato]

The "Bluff" didn't work with me but it did change my life. It determined the exact point when life for me, becomes not worth living.

At Appleseed, they told of an old, very sick man who knew the Redcoats were going to capture his home. As they approached, he had the family prop him up on the porch and that's where he died....fighting it out with the legal forces of the King over the sanctity of his home.

He is the kind of patriot who formed this nation and his death is the reason we have the Second and Forth Amendments in the Bill of Rights. If protecting that heritage was good enough for him, it's fine for me.

Flash

With you all the way on this , life ,liberty are slowly being eroded.
As someone said I won't go quietly.

 

[TrailDust]

And to ROGER4314, the Feds were talking to you guys for a reason. I'm sure that someone was stealing, otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to you guys to begin with. Obviously it wasn't you, but somebody, somewhere was guilty and taking stuff.

The FBI office was located on base and you bet there was stealing! It was the bosses! The bigger the boss, the bigger the thief. It wasn't worth your safety and health to speak up. So that's why they were going to search my house?

Similarly, somebody, somewhere is messing with dope. A casual bashing down of my door to see if it is me will result in lots of powder smoke. That event will write the last page of my life story. That's how it is.

Flash

The government's attitude toward the citizenry in modern America is also reflected in its monetary policy: your money is actually their money, they're just letting you accumulate some while holding down a job and/or investing it, but they will tax it relentlessly, dictate when, where, and how you can/must move it or withdraw it, and in the end confiscate almost half of it as their final due. I will say this, anyone who thinks Americans are "free" are delusional, and the only difference between the U.S. government and governments like the former Soviet Union, China, or Iran is that our government doesn't actually maintain a gulag system and doesn't actively kill people or otherwise make them disappear as other regimes do. If not on a government watch list by this date, I surely am now.