Time for a real "go-to" carbine... help?

[Nestromo]

Well I have been very happy with my Charles Daly AR. I have 1,993 rds through it and have learned a lot. Reliability has been good, but not perfect. I would attribute most of the issues to cheap ammo, but some have been a bit curious.

What do you guys consider to be a dead reliable intermediate caliber weapon? I have been considering a Sig 556. I have been thinking that a 7.62x39 platform might be better because of the shape of the cartridge. It is a naturally easy to extract shape.

Any thoughts? What do you trust to go boom every single time under any condition and hit your mark?

Jon

 

[navyguy]

I guess you're talking caliber rather than the gun itself.

IME, 5.56 or .223 are very reliable as far extraction goes unless you shoot a lot of the steel cased, lacquered coated ammo, in which case the coatings tend to build up in the chamber and can cause problems. I've stopped using Wolf and other such steel cased ammo for that reason. Such problems would probably not be as common with the 7.62x39, especially out of an AK or SKS. I've heard (anecdotal) that AR's in that chambering can be problematic.

Me, if I were looking for a new AR that I didn't want to build, I'd probably get a Colt. Or if I could afford it a SIg.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Any mechanical device can fail occasionally, no matter how good the manufacturer is. Even Glocks and AK's can and do still fail from time to time.

AK's are cheap, simple, generally pretty reliable, though they are substantially less ergonomic than an AR. I say get an AK so you have both of the most common semi auto rifles out there, and start practicing some immediate/remedial action drills.

 

[M. Sage]

Well I have been very happy with my Charles Daly AR. I have 1,993 rds through it and have learned a lot. Reliability has been good, but not perfect. I would attribute most of the issues to cheap ammo, but some have been a bit curious.

What do you guys consider to be a dead reliable intermediate caliber weapon? I have been considering a Sig 556. I have been thinking that a 7.62x39 platform might be better because of the shape of the cartridge. It is a naturally easy to extract shape.

Any thoughts? What do you trust to go boom every single time under any condition and hit your mark?

Jon

Thoughts?

1: Make sure you're lubing the AR properly. I suggest greasing the bolt and carrier instead of using oil, as it seems to work a lot better.
2: If it's cheap ammo causing problems, buy better ammo. I doubt that's the problem, though since most ARs I've seen will eat whatever you feed them.

I'd trust an AR, as long as I was the one who maintained it. They're very maintenance sensitive and the military mags suck (lips bend easily). I shoot an AK mainly because purchase price was less and ammo is a bit cheaper. Accuracy is not in AR league, especially if you stick with the standard sights, and as Sig Fiend pointed out, the ergonomics aren't there. It's a lot harder to master a quick magazine change on the AK, and unless you modify the safety lever, you have to take your firing hand off the rifle to switch it on and off. There's no bolt hold-open (some mags will hold it open, but it slams shut again as soon as you remove the mag to change it), which can further slow down your mag change. Recoil is noticeably higher than with an AR. The standard sights suck, the standard pistol grip that most of them come with is too skinny and sucks, and the rifle is on the heavy side (so is the ammo)... the AK has a lot of negative going on (but I love it.)

The biggest plus to an AK is that it is very insensitive to maintenance. They'll run without lube, they'll run with rocks in them, they'll just run. I actually saw one AK that ran fine, even though it had an empty case wind up behind the bolt carrier somehow. You're supposed to grease the bolt, not oil it, though. The second biggest plus IMO is that if you get a 7.62 AK, it hits a bit harder than an AR at close range. If you get a 5.45, a major plus is that the ammo is still very cheap and has little recoil. It should have nasty terminal effect, too thanks to the shape of the bullet (they tend to penetrate about 3" before they turn sideways). 7.62x39 is available in FMJ, hollow point and soft point. AFAIK, 5.45 is only available in FMJ.

 

[Adionik]

Sage basically summed it up...I love my AK. Definitely goes boom everytime and probably under any condition (That it will hopefully never see).

It's heavy as hell though, and not the most accurate with bump fire. But if shit ever hits the fan, believe that i'd be running for that gun first.

 

[Nestromo]

I really wish that there was an AR type weapon genuinely built around the 7.62x39 cartridge, not adapted.

I would not call my Daly problematic at all, in fact I love it to death. I have had about 3 failures over the course of almost 2k rounds and it won't be going anywhere. Still, I know that there is better out there and I would like to be able to shoot cheap dirty ammo out of it and not worry because it is my only Oh-Crap-Carbine.

What do you guys think about 6.8 SPC? And how about the Aug clone from Microtech? Are (quality) piston uppers all that they are cracked up to be? Hk 93 clones?

 

[DirtyD]

I really wish that there was an AR type weapon genuinely built around the 7.62x39 cartridge, not adapted.

Check out the Robarms XCR, this rifle is on my short list, I had the chance to fire one last week during an urban rifle sesion, and if I stumble into the cash would not hesitate....

 

[ftw13]

the XCR is bad ass,and way more reasonably priced compared to the SCAR and ACR

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Now if only someone could figure out a way to use AK mags in a VZ58, as those are like the perfect AK, have a bolt hold open and all.

 

[M. Sage]

I really wish that there was an AR type weapon genuinely built around the 7.62x39 cartridge, not adapted.

I would not call my Daly problematic at all, in fact I love it to death. I have had about 3 failures over the course of almost 2k rounds and it won't be going anywhere. Still, I know that there is better out there and I would like to be able to shoot cheap dirty ammo out of it and not worry because it is my only Oh-Crap-Carbine.

What do you guys think about 6.8 SPC? And how about the Aug clone from Microtech? Are (quality) piston uppers all that they are cracked up to be? Hk 93 clones?

3 out of 2000 is perfectly fine. I'd trust my life to that. I don't see how using cheap ammo would have a negative effect. Try some and see how it shoots. It's not going to screw your rifle up. I don't know how you could do better, honestly.

6.8mm isn't as good at range IMO, but should do more damage at close range. I think it's meant to be combat effective out to about 300-400 yards. It's lower velocity so you won't have that nice flat trajectory of 5.56, but it's fatter, so it makes a bigger hole.

7.62x39mm will run fine in an AR. No reason to avoid it IMO. ARs run fine in everything from .22 on up. I've never heard of one particular caliber that was problematic.

The AUG clone from Microtech? I don't have one... yet. But I really want one. Downside - parts will be a lot harder to find than for an AR. But I love the balance of the rifle, and it's short OAL is a huge plus in my book.

Piston uppers are not worth buying unless you plan on running a really short barrel, a suppressor or doing a lot of long full-auto strings, or a combination of those. If you want most of the advantages without the added expense, look for an upper with a 16" barrel and a mid-length or full-length gas system - avoid the carbine gas system.

 

[Vellcrow]

You cannot go wrong with an Arsenal AK. Top of the line, piston-operated, tough-as-nails rifle for @ $800. Ammo and mags are cheap and plentiful. Right out of the
box, with steel cased Wolf FMJ ammo, I got sub-2" groups at 100yds with iron sights. Hard to beat as a real, "go to" carbine.

Here is my SGL20-61:

 

[ftw13]

A quality AK74,converted Saiga is a good choice

 

[Roscoe]

My RRA entry model AR has been perfect for me so far, and I have a couple thousand rounds through it. I have a HK-91 .308 that I've owned for almost 30 years. I've never replaced a part on the gun, I've shot over 10K rounds through it, and so far its never failed. It does rip hell out of the brass, but for that kind of reliability and accuracy its worth it.

 

[Spiff]

I've seen equally as many ARs and AKs go down in competition. Sometimes down for a stage, sometimes go home with your rifle in pieces. Heck, I've seen SKSs bite the dust.

It doesn't matter what rifle you pick. Pick what you like, and what you're competent with. Pick what works for you, not someone else. Buy a quality rifle. Buy quality ammo for your stash. Make sure they both work. It's your life we're talking about here.

Then learn how to use it, and, just as important, learn how to maintain it.

I prefer ARs. I don't think you can beat a BCM upper with a stick as far as bang vs. buck is concerned. But that's just me.

 

[M. Sage]

I've only seen one or two things that would bring an AK down. The worst I've seen at competitions was the Mini 14. I've never seen a single one make it through a 100 round competition without failing.

 

[Adionik]

I've only seen one or two things that would bring an AK down. The worst I've seen at competitions was the Mini 14. I've never seen a single one make it through a 100 round competition without failing.

What would bring an Ak down?

Owning an AK, I think I should know all their downfalls...

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I'm trying to find it but, there was a video with a couple guys doing the whole AK vs AR test. Guess who won? Actually the AK FAILED that time around. What caused it to fail was coarse but small gravel being poured onto the receiver. AK's are loose tolerance and the receiver cover isn't exactly tightly fitted, so the coarse gravel managed to get up into the internals and completely lock them up so the gun would not fire. If it were sand, it would probably be no big deal, but actual gravel will do it. Anything can fail. Have a good secondary, and have a good combat knife! lol

 

[Adionik]

Rather than deal with the whole AK vs AR BS....I rather just own both lol.

 

[Texas42]

I'm trying to find it but, there was a video with a couple guys doing the whole AK vs AR test. Guess who won? Actually the AK FAILED that time around. What caused it to fail was coarse but small gravel being poured onto the receiver. AK's are loose tolerance and the receiver cover isn't exactly tightly fitted, so the coarse gravel managed to get up into the internals and completely lock them up so the gun would not fire. If it were sand, it would probably be no big deal, but actual gravel will do it. Anything can fail. Have a good secondary, and have a good combat knife! lol

That would be painful to watch. Even if it wasn't my gun. I hate to see good guns die.

 

[TheDan]

I hate to see good guns die.

I highly doubt it killed the AK. I'm sure it worked perfectly after they took the cover off and shook the gravel out of it. Did any of you see the HK promotional vid for the 416 where they had a guy in some sort of aquaman ninja suit pop up out of the water and fire it. They did it with an M4 and the upper receiver shattered from the pressure. Now that was painful to watch. Mainly because of the techno. Let me see if I can find it... Haha here it is: YouTube - HK416 vs M4