Straw Purchase?

[Orclin]

Here's the situation:
There's a gun I want to buy out of town (still in TX).
I am legally allowed to buy the gun (I have my CHL).
My friend has his CHL also.
Can my friend pick up the gun for me from the private seller while he's in said town?
Is that illegal in any way?

To complicate things; can same friend buy gun from a dealer (with my money), then give the gun to me later?

My understanding of a straw purchase is buying a gun for someone that can not legally buy the gun themselves.

Scott

 

[matefrio]

With a purchase from an FFL the law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. There are exceptions but the FFL should know them all.

There are no straw purchase laws for private sellers.

The seller assumes most of the legal risks in private transactions in my opinion.

In my opinion if there is any reasonable doubt or indication that the gun will end up in the hands of someone who cannot own a firearm or the firearm will be transfered illegally out of the state or country the transaction shouldn't happen. This is in the sellers best interest not the purchaser.

*I'm not a lawyer.

 

[MR Redneck]

I dont see why the CHL should matter. If I were the one selling the gun and you sent someone else after it, then I wouldnt let them have it. CHL ot Not.

 

[CanTex]

If I understand correctly, Seller was contacted by buyer, deal made. Buyer told seller he would have someone else come by to pick it up. Seller was reasonably assured that buyer is able to purchase and own said gun. Seller is reasonably assured that person picking up is able to purchase and own said gun. If it were a private sale with me as seller. I would do it.

When I buy a gun I record the date of purchase, serial number, cost and first name of the person it came from. When I sell a gun I remove it from my owned gun list. Put it into my sold list with serial number and first name of person along with sold date. Cost and selling price as well as the first name of the person I got it from are deleted. Doubt the list would be of any use to anyone but myself but it is a listing of where the gun came from and where it went. I claim no expertise in the legalities, but figure it is good to know the serial numbers of everything in my safe should something happen, (fire/water/theft). After it leaves my hands it just that, out of my control/ownership. With regards to this question, I would record the first name of the guy who contacted me and the first name of the guy that picked it up... Sold to Bob, picked up by John rifle xxxxxxxxxxx on 12/xx/10.

BTW.. if you do not have your serial numbers recorded please take a minute to do so.. Put it in a safe place... just in case..

 

[Bithabus]

Here's the situation:
There's a gun I want to buy out of town (still in TX).
I am legally allowed to buy the gun (I have my CHL).
My friend has his CHL also.
Can my friend pick up the gun for me from the private seller while he's in said town?
Is that illegal in any way?

To complicate things; can same friend buy gun from a dealer (with my money), then give the gun to me later?

My understanding of a straw purchase is buying a gun for someone that can not legally buy the gun themselves.

Scott

Your friend can buy the gun with your cash and give you the gun later or buy the gun with his money and sell it to you later. When buying from a dealer your friend has to attest to the fact that he is the purchaser of the firearm, and lying about this is a felony. Of course he can decide to sell it to you later if he doesn't like it, or give it to you as a gift.

 

[smschulz]

private seller

No forms or transfer needed at all.

Perfectly legal.

No CHL required either.

 

[Texas1911]

You cannot transfer a firearm to someone that is ineligible to possess it. That's what prevents people in a private transaction from committing a "straw purchase" in terms of buying it for someone that is ineligible. However, buying it from a resident, then having a resident make the transaction or pick it up, is not illegal in the state of Texas so long as everyone that touches the gun is legit.

From an FFL standpoint, the only protection we have on a straw purchase is if it's for a gift, and the buyer fills out the 4473. Generally we will want it to be immediate family, otherwise it looks a bit suspect. You have to kinda understand that we really don't know you, and don't want the attention should the gun get flagged at the border or in an arrest seizure.

 

[Joat]

From a private seller there is not an issue.

As described it would be a straw purchase if purchased from an FFL.
He buys the gun with his money, then sells it to you or gives it to you as a gift. This is not a straw purchase.
He buys the gun with your money for you than this is a straw purchase.

Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” — to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet [Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice -Joat].
ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt Transcript

Joat

 

[KAK]

Technically yes its a straw sale. Have your friend call it a gift and it is all better.

 

[matefrio]

Technically yes its a straw sale. Have your friend call it a gift and it is all better.

It is a straw sale if he uses a friend to buy a gun for him from an FFL.

It's not a straw sale if his friend buys him a gift.

Don't lie on the form 4433 questions and everything will be legal. I wouldn't advocate anything else as it's not legal.

It's the old question of ... If you call a sheep's tail a leg, how many legs does a sheep have?

 

[majormadmax]

Private sale, no problem as folks have stated, as long as everyone involved is good-to-go under Texas law for purchasing firearms.

But buying from a dealer, if your friend claims it is a "gift" but in reality you gave him the money for it, technically that is still lying on the 4473.

Why risk it? Simply have the FFL send the firearm to an FFL where you are and stay legit!

I may be overly cautious here, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and I don't think it's worth the risk...

 

[Orclin]

Thanks everyone.
A "gift" it is then.
Scott

 

[Renegade]

Technically yes its a straw sale. Have your friend call it a gift and it is all better.

Legally there is no such thing as a "straw sale" wrt to firearms.

 

[Oldfalguy]

Reckon some are not reading this properly but he is not buying the gun from an FFL- end of story he can do it-
The ONLY way its a straw purchase is if the person filling out a 4473 is not the true purchaser of the firearm. Not the case here, no 4473
T0 me there is no way for an FFL to sell a gun say over gun broker, receive the funds from Tom and then deliver the gun to Bill who
is the only one in a p[position to fill out a 4473

 

[TheDan]

The ONLY way its a straw purchase is if the person filling out a 4473 is not the true purchaser of the firearm. Not the case here, no 4473

That sounds correct to me, but who knows if the ATF will see it that way. Gun Dealer Gets Prison for Selling to Illegal Immigrant; Illegal 'Middle Man' Not Charged - FoxNews.com

 

[M. Sage]

Plain and simple: A straw purchase is when a person who can lawfully buy firearms buys one for someone who can't. Period.

 

[Renegade]

Plain and simple: A straw purchase is when a person who can lawfully buy firearms buys one for someone who can't. Period.

No, it has nothing to do with whether the person cannot buy or not.

It has to do with masking the identity of the true purchaser.

 

[matefrio]

That sounds correct to me, but who knows if the ATF will see it that way. Gun Dealer Gets Prison for Selling to Illegal Immigrant; Illegal 'Middle Man' Not Charged - FoxNews.com

It was proven to a jury he knowingly sold the gun to a person he knew or should have reasonably suspected wasn't eligible to own a gun. There was no charges for any sort of straw purchase.


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[TheDan]

It was proven to a jury he knowingly sold the gun to a person he knew or should have reasonably suspected wasn't eligible to own a gun. There was no charges for any sort of straw purchase.

The illegal alien with the TX drivers license he sold the gun to was refereed to as the "straw purchaser" in the prosecution's documents. The guy that bought the gun with the intent to hand it to his buddy should have been charged with the straw purchase, but wasn't charged with anything. It's interesting to note that the "straw purchaser" wasn't deported either.

 

[matefrio]

The illegal alien with the TX drivers license he sold the gun to was refereed to as the "straw purchaser" in the prosecution's documents. The guy that bought the gun with the intent to hand it to his buddy should have been charged with the straw purchase, but wasn't charged with anything. It's interesting to note that the "straw purchaser" wasn't deported either.

Actual charges though, as I understand, were for selling the gun knowingly to someone who wasn't allowed to own it. The "straw purchaser" no matter how he was labeled was a witness nothing more.

As I stated above....

In my opinion if there is any reasonable doubt or indication that the gun will end up in the hands of someone who cannot own a firearm or the firearm will be transfered illegally out of the state or country the transaction shouldn't happen. This is in the sellers best interest not the purchaser.