Solar panels and deep cycle batteries

[RedneckHillbilly]

I'm still running the same 200 watt system at the farm. Off grid.
Lights and fans are no problem. Two golf cart batteries and a 1500 watt inverter.

If you want to run a fan, or anything with a motor, stay DC or get a true sine wave inverter. I got a modified sine wave. Ac motors are noisy on a modified wave.
Really annoying.

Didnt know they made dc motor ceiling fans?
So, your setup is just lights and low current appliances? Guess heat is firewood or gas and what you do for hot water, gas? How long is the system capable of running between charges?
I guess I’m looking for realistic scale for needs and possibly a luxury or two.

 

[MountainGirl]

if you're looking for guaranteed payback in Texas, I doubt you'll find it. Our rates are better than I think most other states.
In california, you'll have a ROI in maybe 8 to 10 years.

I got a 44 panel system with a 13.5kw battery backup, knowing that IF it ever pays for itself, it would be more than 20 years.
I got the system because I don't ever want to go 5 days below freezing with no power ever again.

Is yours grid-tied?
(Hope not, or that you have an easy way to bypass if so)

 

[Vaquero]

Didnt know they made dc motor ceiling fans?
So, your setup is just lights and low current appliances? Guess heat is firewood or gas and what you do for hot water, gas? How long is the system capable of running between charges?
I guess I’m looking for realistic scale for needs and possibly a luxury or two.

Gas for heating is always more efficient.
A fireplace is a smart thing.
Stock up on wood during the nice weather.

My ideal setup is bulk propane for cooking and water heating.
Grid electricity for lights and cooling.
A propane fuel generator for extended power outages.

Honestly, solar is good for LED lights and charging phones and stuff.
Real emergency stuff.

 

[deemus]

Im more along the lines of having options, in the event the power goes down or needing heating besides on grid. Just an extra layer of protection or some sorts. I get it, it’s why I haven’t even attempted it, because the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Figure a fireplace is better option, since it simpler and just requires hard work.

Same here. I settled for a dual source generator.

ETA - I do want to buy a small solar charger for phones, etc. I bought a small string of LED lights around Christmas. They ran off 3 AA batteries for almost two months non-stop.

 

[no2gates]

Is yours grid-tied?
(Hope not, or that you have an easy way to bypass if so)

Yes, it's grid tied, but I've got a bypass switch to take it off-grid. My system will function off grid as well, where most systems people purchase will not function without the grid being active.

 

[MountainGirl]

Yes, it's grid tied, but I've got a bypass switch to take it off-grid. My system will function off grid as well, where most systems people purchase will not function without the grid being active.

Good. Nightmare, that.

There was no 'grid' available up on the mountain; I designed the solar system for our dwellings, had 2.4Kw coming down through 9 panels (24v), a 2Kw Inverter, and 2 ton of RollsSurrette batts in the power room, lol. I overbuilt it intentionally - had enough juice coming down we switched from propane to a 110 water heater. Only needed to top it all off occasionally - the gen was a Honda EU7000is - ran like a dream. (Propane cookstove, wood heat)

Designed a smaller system for the primitive guest chalet - for lights, radio - found a 300w inverter that didn't need an internal fan; those things can be noisy in a small space.

 

[MountainGirl]

Same here. I settled for a dual source generator.

ETA - I do want to buy a small solar charger for phones, etc. I bought a small string of LED lights around Christmas. They ran off 3 AA batteries for almost two months.

Our gens here are dual fuel also.
Hopefully we'll have access to one or the other (propane/gas). If not either, still no worries.

We picked up an Oupes solar gen recently; very satisfied with it. Plan is, summer-time grid down, we can at least run some fans. Other needs are covered sans electricity totally.

 

[deemus]

which did you get? 1200, 1800 or 2400?

 

[RedneckHillbilly]

Good. Nightmare, that.

There was no 'grid' available up on the mountain; I designed the solar system for our dwellings, had 2.4Kw coming down through 9 panels (24v), a 2Kw Inverter, and 2 ton of RollsSurrette batts in the power room, lol. I overbuilt it intentionally - had enough juice coming down we switched from propane to a 110 water heater. Only needed to top it all off occasionally - the gen was a Honda EU7000is - ran like a dream. (Propane cookstove, wood heat)

Designed a smaller system for the primitive guest chalet - for lights, radio - found a 300w inverter that didn't need an internal fan; those things can be noisy in a small space.

You wanna design my cabin setup that i aint built yet? Sounds like you know what your doing.

 

[MountainGirl]

which did you get? 1200, 1800 or 2400?

The 1800.

For us, it was important that the gen 1) has a pass-through (so it could be used while charging); 2) a quick solar recovery rate (this Oupes has two solar inputs to run two sets of portable panels) and 3) that the battery is lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) instead of lithium ion.


Side note: I dont buy off Amazon for things of this nature. I might find what I want on Amazon, and then check YT for reviews etc, but then go to the company itself to purchase.

 

[MountainGirl]

You wanna design my cabin setup that i aint built yet? ....

Nope. But I will help you design your own.

There's a couple ways to do the solar thing. The easiest is to find a solar company, open your billfold, have them design, install and maintain it... so all you need to learn is how to flip a switch when the grid goes down... and then hope they stay in business to take care of you.

The better (imo) way, is for you to calculate what your actual needs are, research which components will meet those needs, and then pull the trigger. By crawling up that learning curve - you'll understand how this all works, be able to maintain it yourself, troubleshoot easier, and have a system that meets your specific and individual needs.

Your first steps will be to decide what your needs are, what you want the system to do, and then calculate the energy requirements to do it. Easy peasy

 

[FireInTheWire]

Im kind of neutral on the solar panel stuff, but it does interest me. Mainly I don’t want to waste a bunch of money on something that half works as expected. With that said, what is a marginal amount to spend in order to run something in the home and see any payback on it? Even if its just the hot water heater and a couple lights and ceiling fans? Is it better to buy several small inverters or one big single expensive one. Controller as well? Does the panels/batts go bad any faster or slower not being used, or is it a deterioration on a curve as the panels/batts being used and amount of load, or no difference? I know batteries just sitting will go bad, too.

Don't do it for the money. In the end... it really is a wash.

Panels and batts have a life cycle. When you do the math, you don't gain much.

You do it for flexibility and independence.

Best advice I can give is to start slow. Get a little setup and power a deep freezer or power one 20amp breaker i.e., living room breaker and just play with it.

When the time comes, this will be the route I take. Clean and simple.

48V 2X FALCON ELITE INVERTER KIT - LiFePO4 - 122Ah - 6.2kWh - BigBattery.com

HIGH VOLTAGE! BigBattery’s 72V 2.3 kWh LiFePO4 FLCN is our newest addition to a line of golf cart solutions that have performed incredibly in carts all across the country.

bigbattery.com

This guy dives hard off into this kinda stuff and found his info useful. He's a battery geek. I'm pretty geeky myself, so I appreciate it.

 

[thescoutranch]

I am looking at going solar on our home. I’m getting 4 - 5 quotes from solar companies and comparing it to research I’ve done I can install it myself for less than a third of the cost they quoted.

A good source of info can be found on these forums:

New posts

diysolarforum.com

Solar Panel System Equipment - Solar Panels - Solar Panels Forum

Ask your questions about solar modules, mounts, inverters or any other part of your solar energy system. If you want to share the specs for your system, then you can post them here.

www.solarpaneltalk.com

For now, we will be going down the road of grid tie, with no battery backup. ROI is approximately 7 years for the set up.

With the system we are installing we can upgrade the battery back up later if the planning is done upfront.

 

[MountainGirl]

Wow. In Fire's vid ^^ the batt + a few little pieces was $6700 for only 276Ah.
In 2016 - I paid $2400 for 2800 Amp Hours of battery storage.
I knew prices had gone up, but Holy Crap.

 

[MountainGirl]

......


For now, we will be going down the road of grid tie, with no battery backup. ROI is approximately 7 years for the set up.

With the system we are installing we can upgrade the battery back up later if the planning is done upfront.

I know you will, friend, but please please please read the fine print with your existing (grid) provider - especially the parts about when they can shut you off, or limit what is delivered to you. Doubly especially if you've got the smart-meter-interface (which you will, they'll require it); you're relinquishing control. Which means you'll also want to confirm that adding a battery system later is permitted under your contract with the provider; and know that there will be a lot of high-dollar changeouts in the interface, etc.

 

[deemus]

[takes notes]

 

[Darkpriest667]

Wow. In Fire's vid ^^ the batt + a few little pieces was $6700 for only 276Ah.
In 2016 - I paid $2400 for 2800 Amp Hours of battery storage.
I knew prices had gone up, but Holy Crap.

100 Ah batteries are about 600 to 1000 bucks now.

 

[MountainGirl]

100 Ah batteries are about 600 to 1000 bucks now.

I see that now - in the Battle Born LiFePo ones.

That said...
I can get a 98 Ah Deka 12v AGM for $310 -
or a 235 Ah Crown 6v flooded for $220...

If I do this again, up here at TenOaks, I'd go with the LiFePo.
Maybe the BattleBorn ones, maybe not.

ETA: Mine were $0.85/Ah; the Crown's are $0.93/Ah; the Deka's are $3.15/Ah; the deep cycle Battle Born's are $9.00/Ah - and the one's in Fire's vid are over $23.00/Ah. !!

Racket. Totally Uncalled For. Preying on unknowledgeable folks.

 

[RedneckHillbilly]

Don't do it for the money. In the end... it really is a wash.

Panels and batts have a life cycle. When you do the math, you don't gain much.

You do it for flexibility and independence.

Best advice I can give is to start slow. Get a little setup and power a deep freezer or power one 20amp breaker i.e., living room breaker and just play with it.

When the time comes, this will be the route I take. Clean and simple.

48V 2X FALCON ELITE INVERTER KIT - LiFePO4 - 122Ah - 6.2kWh - BigBattery.com

HIGH VOLTAGE! BigBattery’s 72V 2.3 kWh LiFePO4 FLCN is our newest addition to a line of golf cart solutions that have performed incredibly in carts all across the country.

bigbattery.com

This guy dives hard off into this kinda stuff and found his info useful. He's a battery geek. I'm pretty geeky myself, so I appreciate it.

My concern is will they hold up, for that backup and independence? Would a CME take them out or make them fail? Hail storms, etc.? Not sure if yall follow the Earth magnetic field dropping and the effects on how the sun’s solar flares a can be huge, and how they affect technology. Its good while the weather is nice and sunny outside, but when it rains, it storms and sometimes you need an alternative for a storm shelter.

 

[no2gates]

My concern is will they hold up, for that backup and independence? Would a CME take them out or make them fail? Hail storms, etc.? Not sure if yall follow the Earth magnetic field dropping and the effects on how the sun’s solar flares a can be huge, and how they affect technology. Its good while the weather is nice and sunny outside, but when it rains, it storms and sometimes you need an alternative for a storm shelter.

Any CME large enough to cause an EMP here on Earth can take out any electronics, and since a solar system has, in essence, a giant-ass antenna to gather not only sunlight, but also a share of the energy generated by that EMP, it will cease to function along with a lot of other electronics (most cars made after 1984 will be large paperweights).