What is the other criteria?
This is the same .gov that can't tell a male from a female.
But they are telling us the difference between a rifle and a pistol.
BS
They'll know one when they see it...
What is the other criteria?
This is the same .gov that can't tell a male from a female.
But they are telling us the difference between a rifle and a pistol.
BS
Doesn't look like a rifle aperture that would require shouldering to me...So these sights make a pistol a sbr?
View attachment 379270
This purposefully subjective vagueness will be one reason for the rules undoing
Granted, the rule doesn't specify aperture sights as a type, merely "sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder..."Doesn't look like a rifle aperture that would require shouldering to me...
A pistol is a pistol. ATF is not banning AR pistols. They are saying that a pistol with a brace or stock is an SBR. You can put a red dot on a Glock, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, AR pistol, or any other handgun. If you put a brace or a stock on one tho, it becomes an SBR (in their opinion). The confusion stems from the now defunct form 4999.Well, I was only ever talking about that type.
ETA: So, you are saying they are not an issue on an AR pistol?
As long as it's not a prismatic red dot.A pistol is a pistol. ATF is not banning AR pistols. They are saying that a pistol with a brace or stock is an SBR. You can put a red dot on a Glock, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, AR pistol, or any other handgun. If you put a brace or a stock on one tho, it becomes an SBR (in their opinion). The confusion stems from the now defunct form 4999.
Can you not put a prismatic red dot on a Glock if you wanted? Again, all that factoring criteria went out the window with the form 4999.As long as it's not a prismatic red dot.
Can you not put a prismatic red dot on a Glock if you wanted? Again, all that factoring criteria went out the window with the form 4999.
The new criteria: If it's less than 16" barrel and has a brace or stock, it's an SBR.
One could argue that the ATF is in the business of handing out rope for law abiding citizens to hang themselves with. Ambiguousness is the key. They'll let you know what law you broke after you've broken it.I think it's irrelevant to debate what their definition of "is" is until the law suits are all sorted out.
That's what I said...in one sentence.That is not what 27 CFR 479.11 states in the statute.
1) For purposes of this definition, the term “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” shall include a weapon that is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided other factors, as described in paragraph (2), indicate that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.
(2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:
(i) Whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or length of similarly designed rifles;
(ii) Whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
(iii) Whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
(iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;
(v) The manufacturer's direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials indicating the intended use of the weapon; and
(vi) Information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general community.
More ambiguity on their part. They don't actually say "It is an SBR if".Their statement, it is an SBR if
(iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;
"or other rearward attachment"
Everything else aside, if you have anything, regardless of length of said thing, sticking out the back or " rearward" of the receiver, they are going to call it an SBR.
The way I read it, if the buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, it is not a brace.
AR pistols with buffer tubes are still being sold without requiring a tax stamp, which leads me to believe they will remain legal.
It leaves room to to say they don't care if it is needed as a vital part to make it function. If it gives a way to shoulder the firearm, it is an SBR. It can be interpreted either way.More ambiguity on their part. They don't actually say "It is an SBR if".
(2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:
(iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;
The way I read it, if the buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, it is not a brace.
AR pistols with buffer tubes are still being sold without requiring a tax stamp, which leads me to believe they will remain legal.
I agree. They will liberally construe it to their benefit, and your attorney will attempt to defend you, much to the detriment of your retirement savingsIt leaves room to to say they don't care if it is needed as a vital part to make it function. If it gives a way to shoulder the firearm, it is an SBR. It can be interpreted either way.
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