Mods, Rules, and Consistency

[Younggun]

Feel free to enlighten me to as where I was disrespectful to you in any way or form...

I found the fact that you chose to argue with several other members while ignoring the fact that I answered each of your questions to be somewhat disrespectful. I also felt that Vaquero gave you an honest answer. It wasn't the one you wanted, but it was honest.

By the way, maybe the one rule in the Code of Conduct that allows things to get off topic ("We aren't going to enforce any stringent on/off topic rules. So long as the thread is progressing and people are getting the info they need we don't mind if it ends up in left field.") is the root of the problem. It is too prevalent across the forum despite there even being a section for it.

The ability for threads to wander is a big part of what attracts people to TGT. There are lots of forums that enforce "on topic" posting rules and a lot of folks here who find those forums rather dull. It's really what makes TGT.

It also allows thread to move beyond the specific question in the first post. Much of what I've learned on this forum has come from a topic that wandered in to another area. You are able to gain much more through participation in a thread than if it were locked down to the specific topic of the OP.

This is something that has been since the beginning, I highly doubt there will be any change or that TGT would have been 1/10th as successful without it.

It is a cause of confusion

Not that I've noticed, but would be interested to hear of it causing issues or examples.

and honestly I don't see how anyone can moderate fairly with that rule present.

I don't see why not.

There needs to be a decision, either you are going to allow a free-for-all or there is going to be some effort to keep things on track

I don't think we have to choose between zero tolerance (nobody is happy) or anarchy (nobody is happy). We hold somewhere on the middle where most are happy.


.

Right now many threads are being closed for simply the "potential" of going off topic which is allowed per your own Code of Conduct.

I'm not aware of any closed for the potential of simply going be off topic, maybe there was a greater reason. Such as preventing lots of childish bickering.

Mods are not here to make up or apply the rules as they want, they should simply be enforcers of the standards that have been set forth in each and every case. Otherwise, it's hypocritical...

Yes and no. Mods do work to make the forum the best it can be. Sometimes this means the consideration of adding or removing rules. Generally to be approved by admin or owner.

I'm not sure of any examples of applying rules as we want. We apply them as they need to be. Not all of the standards are black and white and not all posts will obviously violate a rule, nor will some violations be obvious. For that reason it comes to a judgment on the part of the moderator(s). The only way around this is Zero Tolerance, and Zero Tolerance policies have terrible track records in every application. The whole forum would be banned. I don't see this as hypocritical, simply realistic.



You are obviously unhappy with certain aspects of the forum, however the changes you wish for would likely create much more disruption among many more members.



I appreciate your feedback.

 

[Captain]

I think our mods do a great job.

sent from a Galaxy far away

 

[Wyldman]

Ditto.

Crush, kill, mangle, maim, destroy.

 

[jrbfishn]

There are some things the mods do that I don't understand. AndI'm probably glad I don't. They do thankless job. And a good one for the most part. I have no complaints.

sent from an idgit coffeeholic

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I'm "liking" all these posts.

Sent from Command Central

 

[winchster]

Zero tolerance boards don't thrive near as well as this one. Several of us are members of one in particular. A lot of us came here from another successful board that is not quite zero tolerance but very tightly controlled. There's a reason I've been active here and not there over the same six year time span.
The mods here do a fine job of keeping the trash picked up without being JBT'S about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[London]

I BLAME YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

happy?? I feel better already!

bob

Now you fit in with everybody else around here.

 

[London]

Ahh, the politics section. Yes, it's a trouble spot that results in the most heated discussions and often brings out the worst in some of our members. The best way of dealing with it is discussed often. You are correct in that this is a gun forum, but politics and guns tend to get mixed together quite often. For every member that wants the section gone, another will wish it to stay just as strongly. It also generates traffic and can attract new members to the forum.

Hopefully we will have a good solution soon, in the mean time I can only recommend avoiding the section if you feel it's content isn't worth your time.

I think the politics section is unfairly maligned due to the simple fact that people tend to focus on the negative. Very early in my military career I learned that for every time you mess up you have to get 100 things exactly right before people forget about it. It's just how the human mind is hard wired. Compare how much good stuff is there to how much drama is generated and the numbers are still very favorable (at least from my perspective as someone who doesn't have to clean up any messes).

I think some of the best stuff is in the politics section as well. As far as going elsewhere to get into politics, sure, that's an option. I like doing it here, though, since so many people here are of similar values and interests. I can't spend all day researching politics but when 12 or so somewhat like-minded people a day post stories I'm interested in I don't have to. They are aready there for me in the Politics section on a silver platter. Other people do most of the hard work and it's very convenient. (Not to be completely selfish- I do contribute articles there when I see it as appropriate.)

I agree the best course of action is to just not go there if you don't like it. Leave the arguing to the big boys!

 

[London]

I don't know if the forum software can support it, but I think some form of collaborative moderation would be useful. If we could up/down vote individual posts, then posts (and replies to the post) that have a sufficient negative score could automatically be hidden. You could set it so that they could be manually un-hidden, but you have to be a member for X amount of time or something to do so. That would prevent the really contentious stuff from being publicly viewable, but it's still there for the people that want it.

Good advice for all of it really.

If I remember correctlt TGT is powered by VBulletin, which supports nearly anything. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should, though.

My message board is a tiny little newborn baby, and I'm it's proud Papa, so I don't have a lot of experience with these things. I have read about how to make a good messageboard from lots of sources, though, and they ALL strongly advise to avoid "Like" buttons. You have Facebook? Look how people use like buttons- instead of thoughtfully articulating a point they can lazily click a button and communicate nearly nothing, assuming the point has been made. It is poison for message boards, which require dialogue to be successful.

There's also the whole "Democracy/popularity contest" element which I find distasteful. If a thread sucks it automatically gets superceded by more popular ones thanks to the message board programming and user disinterest.

 

[TheDan]

As far as going elsewhere to get into politics, sure, that's an option. I like doing it here, though, since so many people here are of similar values and interests.

Exactly. Liking guns and liking Texas is a political litmus test. If you don't at least like those two things then there's no use talking politics with you at all.

 

[Savage805]

He's right.

 

[bones_708]

I found the fact that you chose to argue with several other members while ignoring the fact that I answered each of your questions to be somewhat disrespectful. I also felt that Vaquero gave you an honest answer. It wasn't the one you wanted, but it was honest.

You're calling someone because they stated they disagreed. No bad language or insults just that he continued to disagree? Is that we're we are?

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

The other forum I frequent has the option for "like", "thank", "lol", and "saddened by". Conversations still go on so long that I often lose track of what's going on because I don't feel like reading all the books. I like the "lol" option because it cuts back on people quoting a post just to type "lol". The "thank" button works good too because it helps prevent beating the dead horse.

I'm good either way. That's just what I've seen from another forum that fully implements the buttons.

 

[TheDan]

The other forum I frequent has the option for "like", "thank", "lol", and "saddened by". Conversations still go on so long that I often lose track of what's going on because I don't feel like reading all the books. I like the "lol" option because it cuts back on people quoting a post just to type "lol". The "thank" button works good too because it helps prevent beating the dead horse.

I'm good either way. That's just what I've seen from another forum that fully implements the buttons.

Those are still all positive responses. What I was talking about earlier is a way to downvote a post, and once a post had certain negative score (upvotes minus downvotes) it could be automatically hidden from view. It would save the moderators from having to deal with the petty bickering and they could focus on just removing the truly belligerent.

 

[Younggun]

You're calling someone because they stated they disagreed. No bad language or insults just that he continued to disagree? Is that we're we are?

I didn't say or imply any such thing.

 

[bones_708]

I didn't say or imply any such thing.

Well.....

I found the fact that you chose to argue with several other members while ignoring the fact that I answered each of your questions to be somewhat disrespectful. I also felt that Vaquero gave you an honest answer. It wasn't the one you wanted, but it was honest.

What do you call argue?

Really? What was the final answer, because it was still be debated the last time I checked.

That is considered arguing? Asking a question? That was his response to Vaquero statement.

or was it this

But has it gotten to the point that when one person expresses their opinion in a thread, the mods consider it to be the final word and it cannot be discussed any further?

If that is what got you saying he was arguing and disruptive then I guess I better shut it .

 

[motorcarman]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade......................... Sean Connery to Harrison Ford............................ Let It Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



bob

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade......................... Sean Connery to Harrison Ford............................ Let It Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



bob

Some folks are just gonna argue no matter what. Just lost a good member cause he refused to let stuff go. It wasn't the first and I don't suspect it will be the last.

 

[robertc1024]

Damn. Some of you people just need to get your panties out of a wad. Life isn't perfect the last time I checked.

 

[Younggun]

Well.....

What do you call argue?



That is considered arguing? Asking a question? That was his response to Vaquero statement.

or was it this



If that is what got you saying he was arguing and disruptive then I guess I better shut it .

You've read it, you can agree or disagree. I've answered all of his questions to the best of my ability.

He seemed a bit combative at the start of this thread and rather than be a dick I asked that he remain respectful and I would do the same. He also seemed to be more concerned with those trying to stir the pot than those in this thread who his comments were geared towards.

You can pick and choose posts out of the thread and use them as a foundation for an accusation of injustice. I don't feel your accusation is supported by the full content of the thread or my willingness to discuss these issues with anyone who brings them up.