GREAT!!!! Where are you located? I just happen to be on the lookout for a new location to hunt. lol
Interesting Discussion with a Game Warden Today
- Thread starter Medic218
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GREAT!!!! Where are you located? I just happen to be on the lookout for a new location to hunt. lol
I don't believe the OP stated if the son specifically told his father (owner) that someone would be out there hunting and setting up the cameras. Even if the leasee called the owner, the owner may not have known about the camera being out there. There are some missing pieces of the story here, but from what I can tell, the GW was in the right. The son knew, but it doesn't sound like the father knew.
I agree there are pieces missing, for example we do not not even know who is on the deed, maybe the son is and the hay baler or GW did not know that.
I own hundreds of acres in several states and 2 countries, unless you are at the property records office right now, there is no way for a third party to know who the owners of the property are. And one of the properties is Corp owned, so names are not listed.
My bad, he did say his dad said it was cool as long as I wasn't out there blowing stuff up and setting stuff on fire.
Was the dad aware that you were going to set up cameras? He may not of thought about it if the leasee called him and asked about them. I still believe it was just a matter of communication, and the leasee suspected poaching, and therefore called the GW. I suspect if everyone was in the loop the GW wouldn't have been called, unless the leasee was just being a jerk and didn't want to share the land (which changes everything).
Did you ever find out if the leasee called the father first about the cameras? Hay rights do not equal hunting rights, but does he have hunting rights also?
Did you ever find out if the leasee called the father first about the cameras? Hay rights do not equal hunting rights, but does he have hunting rights also?
Texastransplant
Active Member
Agree the guy the leases the land for hay, gets to grow hay. That's it, he's not getting anything else. I agree that the "dad" should be the one contacted. Reminds me 45 years ago when hunting and a two older guys come along and say kid what are you doing hunting here, it's our land. I said well I am the hired mans kid and you're not the farmer that owns the land, what's your names. They left, I guess the scrawy farmboy called their bluff.
I can't tell if you are being serious here. If you are, you have to admit that your situation is not a model for all situations. The kid in the story should have secured consent from the property owner, who should have made damn sure allowing hunters would not violate the rights of his lessee.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
Hay guy has no authority to contact the Game Warden or give up property that wasn't his. How did he know the cameras weren't the owner's? He should have called the owner first.
Of course I am serious, and my situation is common - the idea only the person on the deed can allow someone on the property is extremely uncommon. Do your children's friends have to get your permission before being allowed on your lawn to play catch or or come inside to watch TV, or can your child give permission for that? Same applies here. As I pointed out above, it is almost impossible to know who is on the deed unless you are standing in the property records office looking at it.
How do you know he didn't? Do you know for a fact the son is not the property owner? Do you know for a fact the son is not authorized to allow folks on the land? As I already stated, the son sure thinks he can, as he told the OP he could go out there anyway.
There is no way the hay baler or the GW knows who is authorized to give effective consent for folks to be on the property.
Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
It sure seems he had effective consent to be on the property, given the info we have.
This
Had any of my hay guys done this, they would have been given a stern warning. That land is not theirs and they must run anything by ME first and then I would decide what is to be done...not them. The hay contract gives them rights to the hay production and that's it. They do not get to decide who can and cannot be out there. That is my job as the land owner. If I or any of my agents give permission for someone to be out there, its the law of my land and it isn't up for review by someone just leasing hay rights....unless it directly interferes with his operation. Game cams do not in any way impede hay production, nor does hunting when properly coordinated. This whole deal could have been avoided with a little bit more communication, IMO.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
Renegade, I agree it's very common in my experience. We even had spare ranch trucks with keys in them in case someone driving a car needed to borrow one.
We always just made sure my everyone knew who was where to avoid accidents. I usually asked where everyone else was going to hunt...then I'd claim everything else
On the hay guy, he probably did what he thought was right. If i was the land owner I'd just tell him to call me first next time.
We always just made sure my everyone knew who was where to avoid accidents. I usually asked where everyone else was going to hunt...then I'd claim everything else
On the hay guy, he probably did what he thought was right. If i was the land owner I'd just tell him to call me first next time.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
To the OP. After you get it all sorted out I'd call the GW again before heading out to let him know it was all resolved. I'm sure he'd appreciate the heads up and it may make your life easier in the long run.
I understand your point, but it is a different issue when the child is a resident. This was empty land. I don't have children, but other family members do not have the right to dole our usage rights to my property. And I do not have the right to "allow" people to use their property. Could be because I was born a Yankee, but that notion sounds crazy to me.
The OP states that the land belongs to his friend's Dad
Also, the owner's son apparently did not ask his Dad for consent, and figured that he has enough "pull" to allow such a thing
The hay baler should know, since he is leasing the land. Every time I've leased property I certainly knew who had rights to the property, and what was the extent of those rights.
I don't think we have enough information to determine that. If the son is authorized by the owner to act as his agent, and the lease with the hay guy allows for guests of the owner to hunt on the property, then I would agree.
Ours were handshakes as well....up until we had two guys leasing 2 different hay meadows. They were on opposite ends of the ranch, but we figured we'd better spell everything out so there wasn't a problem...and there wasn't. They had access to the ranch 24/7 unchecked and could run hay in their respective areas and that was all they were allowed. Each guy was running 20-30 acres. I hunted the place year round, ran cattle outside of the hay areas, and generally did what we needed to do to run the ranch...none of which disturbed the hay operations. Never had a problem except with that one guy I mentioned earlier. He was one of the first ones and didn't last long. After that, it was smooth sailing for all parties.
The fact is these statements by the GW are incorrect:
1) the property owners son has no legal wright to grant me access to the property since it is on lease.
2) He said that the only people that can allow me out there are the actual property owner and the guy who leases the pastures for hay.
3) If I wanted to continue to use the property, since it is currently on lease, I had to get with my buddies dad and draw up paperwork allowing me on the lease.
What the GW is saying, is even the son cannot be on the property without written permission of his dad. Someone would have to show me in the Texas Statures where it is written that to be on leased property you need written permission from the actual deeded owner. Funny how I do not need written permission to be on other leased property such as apts businesses, etc.
