I'm Going To Shoot You In Your Flashlight

[Rabies]

I don't have flashlights on my guns. Maybe that's why I don't understand.

I could see them being useful for shooting in the dark at inanimate objects. Maybe animals. Possibly zombies. But at a person who may be armed with a gun?

I'm thinking that if I were in a gun fight against a guy with a flashlight on his gun, I'd aim for the light. Chances are it's the same location as his head or torso.

Now, I'm being funny here but, really, 'splain it to me.

 

[Rabies]

I don't need to stare directly at the sun to know where it is.

 

[Rabies]

That'd be a lot like shooting at the moon. And have you seen the pock marks on it? Yep. That was all me. Off hand with open sights.

Hey, see y'all tomorrow

 

[Vellcrow]

Here are a few key points I learned in some force-on-force classes:

1) When it is dark enough to use a light, one usually cannot see well enough to fully ID a target. Therefore, not enough (usually) justification to fire.

2) When one's eyes are adjusted to low-light conditions, 100% of people instinctively flinch away from a bright light source, this delay gives the light-bearer a chance to ID the target and make a decision to open/hold fire.

3) If the light-bearer does not use that chance to open fire, if needed, the right mindset was not brought to the fight.

I will say this; once someone shines a light on a target and lags in their decision to use force, then yes, they may get shot at because of the light. It is up to the individual to have the right tools (both physical and mental) to do the job.

 

[Rudinater]

When in the navy we would do training with paint guns on some of the old ships. I loved laying in wait for the team with the flashlights. We knew where they were and they made easy targets. Then again clearing a bunch of dark rooms/hallways suck.

 

[DirtyD]

Many people misinterpret the purpose of a weapon mounted light, they are not meant to be used in a manner like a flashlight. These are to be used momentarily to identify and disorient a target in low light situations. As stated above, I will gladly "play guns in the dark with you" and laugh maniacly as I proceed to shoot your blinded body multiple times with a marker gun while you try and figure out a) why the hell you are seeing dots and b) where the hell I went after the light turned off again.....

 

[Rabies]

Many people misinterpret the purpose of a weapon mounted light, they are not meant to be used in a manner like a flashlight. These are to be used momentarily to identify and disorient a target in low light situations.

That sounds a lot better than walking around with the light on all the time, looking like some kind of light house.

Now I'm thinking, if you're going to disorient me with the light, you must be close enough and able to see me well enough to shine the light in my eyes. At least in my face. If you can see me that well, do you need a light?

Lets play scenarios.

I'm a bad guy. I wanna do bad, bad things. I'm creeping around your area, gun at the ready.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Turn light off
5. Move
6. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy wins.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy still has less to do. Winner, bad guy.

 

[txinvestigator]

For me, a light is pretty much mandatory in low to no light conditions. I used to not think so until I had some force on force, realistic training.

YMMV

 

[espnazi]

You aren't going to be pointing the light aimlessly.

You should try and look at a 200+ lumen light and see what your reaction is. You will probably shy away from the light or if in strobe mode be disoriented/fall.

 

[Dawico]

My brother is a Sheriff's Deputy, and he was trained to hold his flashlight out to the side for these very reasons.

If you shine a gun mounted flashlight at a bad guy, he may not even know you have a gun. Try turning your flashlight on in the dark and move toward the front of it. Could you really tell if there was a gun there or not? Unless you have it mounted back on a long gun, I doubt it.

The biggest reasons for a mounted flashlight is for target identification and convenience. You have to have some kind of light to identify a threat in the dark, and when you hear glass break in the middle of the night, are you going to remember your gun, light, phone, pants, or even your name? You are probably going to be freaking out for a minute, and if some of these items can be pooled together, why not do it?

 

[Dcav]

That sounds a lot better than walking around with the light on all the time, looking like some kind of light house.

Now I'm thinking, if you're going to disorient me with the light, you must be close enough and able to see me well enough to shine the light in my eyes. At least in my face. If you can see me that well, do you need a light?

Lets play scenarios.

I'm a bad guy. I wanna do bad, bad things. I'm creeping around your area, gun at the ready.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Turn light off
5. Move
6. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy wins.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy still has less to do. Winner, bad guy.

Add into the equation good guy with K9 early warning system. Plus the handgun mounted flashlight. Plus bi-weekly handgun proficiency with the same home defense gun. Your chances are getting slimmer.

 

[Texas42]

All kidding aside, do you really think your going to shoot someone in your house in the dark without shining a flash light to make sure and identify the target?

I guess I need to get a light for my guns. . . .

 

[DirtyD]

Lets play scenarios.

I'm a bad guy. I wanna do bad, bad things. I'm creeping around your area, gun at the ready.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Turn light off
5. Move
6. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy wins.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy still has less to do. Winner, bad guy.

I personally dont need to "play scenarios", I have done this in both practice and the real world, and you are welcome to your thoughts, but practical experience wins out in my book, I know the end result. Weapon mounted lights, when employed properly, work.

 

[Dcav]

I personally dont need to "play scenarios", I have done this in both practice and the real world, and you are welcome to your thoughts, but practical experience wins out in my book, I know the end result. Weapon mounted lights, when employed properly, work.

Well said.

 

[cowboy45]

That sounds a lot better than walking around with the light on all the time, looking like some kind of light house.

Now I'm thinking, if you're going to disorient me with the light, you must be close enough and able to see me well enough to shine the light in my eyes. At least in my face. If you can see me that well, do you need a light?

Lets play scenarios.

I'm a bad guy. I wanna do bad, bad things. I'm creeping around your area, gun at the ready.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Turn light off
5. Move
6. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy wins.

Flash light gunner has to:
1. Know I'm there
2. Aim light at my face
3. Turn light on
4. Shoot

Bad guy has to:
1. See light
2. Shoot at light

Bad guy still has less to do. Winner, bad guy.

First, I know you are there or I wouldnt be. Second I have as much night vision as you. Third, when I hit you in the eyes with a light, you won't see the second light, which is the muzzle flash.

 

[streakpi]

Heck, I would venture to say that most break-ins are not committed by men with trained guns at the ready (the bad guy). They are executed by weak-minded and woefully sub-standard people many times with no weapon (which is reliable and trained). At least was my experience as an MP back in the day. I investigated several break-ins where the guy was apprehended by a homeowner with a bat and maglight. On the other hand- a home invasion perpetrated by a gang of guys hell-bent on your destruction and armed...well that is another story.

Pick up a weapons magazine or another similar publication or simply read your local papers...plenty of people are able to end the trouble with a laser or flashlight mounted weapon, good senses, and a will to defend their house.

I too welcome ya in my Texas house- I'll leave the light on for you.

 

[navyguy]

I've thought about this a lot. But I think, a bad guy, entering a dark room and getting 120 lums right in the eye balls would put me at the advantage. Shine and move, and the a-hole will be hard pressed to see you, yet you will see him much better.

 

[gladi8r]

Hate to beat a dead horse but through proper training a weapon mounted light with the proper brightness is a very effective tool when it comes to a everyday gun user, be hit home protection or shtf scenarios. Do a little research on the net and train yourself to properly deploy it. If you think that its like the movies where 50 guys walk into a building with little pieces of sunshine on the end of there rifles or pistols constantly on your wrong. Dont drink the kool aid do a little research spend some money on a class and not tacticool stuff then practice.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Here's some homework for those that want to learn more about operating in low-light environments (the music is soooooo horrible lol):



Low-Light Technic 3 Video - SureFire Institute (this is total 70's porno music right there lol)
SureFire
http://www.surefireinstitute.com/images/pdfs/Officer-Involved_Shooting_Study.pdf
http://www.surefireinstitute.com/images/pdfs/White_Light_Article.pdf
http://www.surefireinstitute.com/images/pdfs/SureFire_Low-Light_Editorial.pdf
JNC: Let there be Light: Good
http://www.progressivecombat.com/pdfs/LETArticle-May2008.pdf
http://www.progressivecombat.com/pdfs/SWAT-Clarity-Chaos.pdf

 

[RogerEMT]

Ok. I was once sleeping and had my window open, it was a nice night and I enjoyed the fresh air. It was 2:30 am. I heard wispering outside and heard them say, 'lets go have a look around back." I ran outside to my backyard, saw 3 men in trenchcoats and nightcaps on. I kneeled behind cover and let out a, "FREEZE!! ON THE GROUND!! DO IT!! DO IT NOW!!!" What happened was a blinding mag light straight into my eyes and a drop the gun!! LOL It was the police looking for a thief. They were in the wrong for not notifying me of being in my backyard and let me go. They told me, "You were lucky." I told them, "You were luckier." We laugh about it now.. My point is, the light's purpose is not so much to see your target but to blind them. I was so damn blind in was unreal, suprised my pupils didn't constrict into anti-matter. And even after the light was out of my eyes, I still couldn't see shit...LOL... I wouldn't use it for far off encounters, but up close, its devastating.