Ideal shotgun for 3 gun comps ?

[TexMex247]

As stated in title, what do you 3 guns veterans think is an ideal shotgun for a 3 gun competition ? I think I have the rifle and pistol parts thoroughly covered but I am at a loss on the shotgun side. My dream guns are a benelli M4 or a converted saiga. Are there good alternatives that get it done on the cheap though ? Maybe a Remington Versamax(still not cheap) or mossy 930 ? Obviously, reliability is crucial and I can think of only a handful of guns that chamber a fed round effortlessly. Which I think should play a factor in transitions and reloading. Someone school me or let me know I'm on the right track. Hell, post pics if ya got em'.

 

[cajunautoxer]

What's your budget? I have about 3k rounds thru 2 930 and no issue except operator error. A buddy of mine had a pro and after Benny worked on it it ran well. But he just got a Benny Hill Versamax and that damn thing is sexy. Much nicer than my Pro but 4xs the price. Berettas 1301 looks promising


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[M. Sage]

Budget? Class?

I (and it seems a lot of others) have had really good luck with the FN SLP MkI. It's pretty much ready to go from the factory. Some people get a welded lifter, but IMO it's not really needed unless you have a tiny thumb. I'm probably going to add a +1 extension to mine. Other than an extension, a bolt handle and some Dremel work on the loading port and hand guard, it's ready to kick ass from the factory.

 

[TexMex247]

No class or budget just yet. I'm simply looking for a highly reliable auto loader but I figure if I'm spending a grand or more, might as well get an M4 or trick out a saiga myself. I have no clue what else will run various loads as reliably as a well tuned saiga or benelli but I'm open to suggestion. The beretta is an interesting alternative. Ideally, I would keep my budget at or under $1200.

 

[cajunautoxer]

Skip the M4 and S12. You can find a used M2 for less than a grand. The 1301 looks good only thing you will need is a tube extension

 

[RickLovesBacon]

Gt had m1 super 90 police trade ins. That were going for around 650.

Sent from the Bacon isle at your local grocery store.

 

[Stukaman]

Always wondered if the new Ithaca 37 defense guns would hold up to the challenge?

 

[M. Sage]

I'm sure they'd hold up, but you're going to have a couple of handicaps running a pump-action bottom eject shotgun. Well, unless you buy a Garand and a 1911 and compete in a WWII class... Even then, the bottom eject is going to be a liability. Being able to load directly into the chamber is an ability that you really need to have sometimes.

Also, thinking back on the M37 I had, I don't think it'd be compatible with magazine extensions. Again, might end up OK in a WWII class, but for something like Tactical (where most people shoot), you might as well put an anchor around your neck.

As far as the Saiga, I've been told they end up finicky and not terribly reliable. The only good thing about them is the detachable magazine and IMO something like an Xrail with speed loaders or an Akdal would be a better choice than a Saiga, IMO. The bad thing about going that route is you end up in Open, running against guys with big money in their gear.

That's why I asked about the class you wanted to run. Building a setup for Limited or Tactical is way, way different than what you'll buy for Open.

 

[TexMex247]

I was gonna try and get started by setting up a "back yard" course of fire that duplicates a competition. However, after a little reading, there's a lot more too it than I thought. I don't own much ipsc or uspsa legal gear. My range area is also limited to about 100 yards maybe 150. I'm more likely to get my feet wet in the limited class so I'm not defeated by my own low budget equipment. I've always wanted a tricked out saiga but it would only be practical if I had a complete outfit to compete in open. Good advice Msage, all things considered, the FN SLP looks like a nice piece of work. Definitely a must have to complete my collection and maybe dive into 3 gun. I have read a bunch of stellar reviews about it, now I've just gotta save up my pennies !

 

[M. Sage]

I was gonna try and get started by setting up a "back yard" course of fire that duplicates a competition. However, after a little reading, there's a lot more too it than I thought. I don't own much ipsc or uspsa legal gear. My range area is also limited to about 100 yards maybe 150. I'm more likely to get my feet wet in the limited class so I'm not defeated by my own low budget equipment. I've always wanted a tricked out saiga but it would only be practical if I had a complete outfit to compete in open. Good advice Msage, all things considered, the FN SLP looks like a nice piece of work. Definitely a must have to complete my collection and maybe dive into 3 gun. I have read a bunch of stellar reviews about it, now I've just gotta save up my pennies !

Get the gear together and just head out and shoot. They're not too picky about what you use at BOTW. You just need a holster that works, something to carry reloads, and safe, serviceable guns. The only other thing I can think of is don't show up with any M855; steel targets don't like it.

I've been really happy with my FN, and think it's probably the best shotgun deal if you want to shoot 3 gun.

 

[breakingcontact]

The 930 is good IF you don't mind tinkering with it.

2 of them at AGL in RR used.

1 of them may or not be mine, there on consignment.

The other one is fixed up nicer but has the pistol grip stock, which I don't like, but some do.

 

[M. Sage]

The 930 is good IF you don't mind tinkering with it.

2 of them at AGL in RR used.

1 of them may or not be mine, there on consignment.

The other one is fixed up nicer but has the pistol grip stock, which I don't like, but some do.

I wish I could figure out why, but I definitely prefer a regular stock on shotguns. Strange, when I really prefer a pistol grip stock on rifles... So I know what you mean.

 

[wakal]

Benny down at Triangle likes the Versa Max quite a bit...and he was the guy who designed the first 930 "JM Specials" (and, oddly enough, is the only reason the Miculek "family" guns actually run...the 930 is pretty much a POS...get Benny going sometime about how they refused to listen to his modifications...that they paid him to do...but anyway...)...

I'm fond of the SX2 Practical with a welded lifter and a Nordic +1 (easier to get eight in the tube when nine fits ) in Limited, and consider heavily modified Saigas to work just fine. Hell, Dreadnaught builds the only (ONLY) Saiga good enough to win the USPSA Open Nationals...but a Saiga places you immediately into Open. With some big pistol mags in an iron sight pistol I don't think a middle of the road shooter gives anything up to a dot pistol, and my own Open and Limited/Scope rifles are identical except for the dot on the side...but there is no reason to go Open if you don't want to play in the deep end of the pool. Besides, most match directors shoot Tac/Scope so most prize tables are HEAVILY slanted Tac/Scope.

My own shotgun collection also includes a SX3 with a XRail, a M1 Super 90 tricked out for Limited, and I've been building 1100 into competition guns for years. Although I built the hell out of Saiga, I have been experimenting with the MKA along with my crazy friend Jim over at Firebird. Personally, I think all shotguns suck ass for "action" shooting, as they are designed for Elmer Bloody Fudd instead of for hard, fast use (mmm...kinky...) but I've had good luck with the SX platform. Benelli run OK but are temperamental and require sixteen steps and three hands to load. I've been watching the 930 since before they were released to the public, and they don't tend to run for shit when worked like a Master class shooter...runs a shotgun.

Having RO'ed every single shooter at various national level 3-gun competitions (yeah, I hate putting the timer down) and shooting assorted matches like the Iron Man (this year, back to back Open and Tac Scope...six days of "oh damn...")...I haven't seen any shotgun platform in any shooter's hands run 100%. Sorry, fan boys, but your shotgun sucks too

Buy what you like, practice loading that pig until you can stuff rounds in it at a dead run or standing still in less than a round per second, and shoot it until you can hit static plates or flying clays, 8" slug plates at 100 yards offhand, and can do any of that on demand in any conditions. Practice clearing jams. Figure out what shot, buck, and slugs YOUR gun runs best with, and buy tons of that. Don't try to run junk ammo at the big match...save the Wally World crap for practice (so you can practice clearing jams). Just like pistols and rifles...buy what the gun likes, and only run that on the clock!


Alex

 

[M. Sage]

I'll agree with shotguns being crap. 3 gun played a part in opening my eyes to the fact that shotguns are only a good platform if you want to knock something out of the air.

 

[wakal]

They are just not made for playing rough. Standing in water and hitting flying foul tasting (heh) flying critters in the rain one time, sure. Shooting two rounds at a time at little flying orange Pottery Barn rejects, no problem. Shooting at 40 targets as fast as you can run...mixed flying, static, and swinging targets like at Rocky Mountain 3-Gun last week, well...not so much.

After working on most everything including some super-exotics, shooting matches for longer than I care to remember, and designing several shotguns from the ground up, I suspect that the problem is the shot shells themselves and the result of the odd pressure curve that the combination of bore diameter and projectile system produce. Semi (and full) auto operation is just...finicky. So are pump action shotguns, both as a result of operator error and shell type, but that is a different thread

Alex

 

[M. Sage]

There's so much variation in shotgun shells, too. They don't have nearly the tolerances of rifle or pistol ammo. I can walk down right now, pick up three shells from three manufacturers, and they'll very obviously be different lengths (even though they're all 2 3/4" shells...), and if i throw a caliper on them, probably vary more than a little in diameter, too.

... now you have me thinking that if we designed a new ammunition system from the ground up, one with some actual standards and tighter than eyeball-close tolerances that shotguns might be worth a damn. But I think they wouldn't be compatible with "legacy" systems - something entirely new from butt to muzzle, including the ammo.

 

[breakingcontact]

With the popularity of three gun is a standard and precise shotgun shell size not emerging?

 

[M. Sage]

With the popularity of three gun is a standard and precise shotgun shell size not emerging?

It's not that popular. Most shotgun shells (like most shotguns) are designed for guys shooting clays, birds or bucks. Those are all sports where you'll only fire like 1-5 rounds every ten minutes or so. They're squeezing more performance out of what goes inside (powders, shot cups, the shot itself, etc.) and barrel/choke manufacturing on the shotgun side.

Plus, it's kind of hard to make something "precise" when it's mostly made of flimsy plastic... Way back, I guess you could get all brass shells, and I've handled old paper shells, too.

 

[wakal]

We figured the only way to really make the platform work properly was a rimless metallic cartridge system. That also makes belt fed pretty easy

The problem is, as mentioned, is that in the Grand View, 3-Gun isn't even a rounding error (in the number of shooters per sport nationwide). Making the setup costs work out as even a break-even project are not particularly viable. Without the ammo companies on board, an entirely new line is just not cost effective.

Alex

 

[cajunautoxer]

As a semipro has said if a person say's his shotgun hasn't malfunctioned he's just isn't shooting enough