Ok, since there obviously is a difference of opinion on them being properly staked, is there any way to test them? Not only for this thread but for future reference.
Will an Allen wrench settle it? If it will not turn out is that good enough? Is that more or less stress than it will have to endure during firing?
I have always believed that a wrench shouldn't remove the screw and that is staked enough. Loc Tite will not hold them in and I know I can remove a Loc Tited screw with a wrench.
I am just curious here. There are many different levels of being staked properly. If it holds then it is staked properly. I am all for overkill on a defensive weapon but is there a proper way to test it? Does the internal head of the screw have to be damaged to be good enough? I do not believe so but it is apparent that some people do.
You do know reading comprehension is part of reading
Loctite will melt with heat. I did tests on it years ago where taking it through temperature cycles, it cracks, starts leaking (in a pressure application) and fails.
We are hardly that bad
It was settled.. it was proven it was improperly staked with photographic evidence and side by side comparisons. If the manufacturer is even replacing it and taking care of it, that is even more evidence that it was/is improperly staked from factory.
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I disagree. Is it less staked than the other examples? Yes it is. That doesn't prove anything besides you get what you pay for.
The manufacturer sending a new part to replace it proves nothing either. Corporations do things like this all the time just to make their customers happy.
Until it fails or someone puts a wrench to it then it is staked good enough. All it has to do is keep the screws from turning and that doesn't take much.
Don't get me wrong, it may not hold. I don't have it in my hand to test. But just because it doesn't look like the more expensive staking jobs doesn't mean it won't hold.
So........bad QC all the way around?
As far as QC goes....I guess the Colt, Wyndham, and Bushmaster would all be sent back according to the standards most expect?
Didn't mean to start a war here guys. But......DPMS is sending a new BCG to me. I did however take mine up to the LGS (B&S Guns) in Garland and they looked at it and owner, who has always taken good care of me told me to hold on a minute. He told the gunsmith to take it back, and put a bunch of rounds through it. After what seemed to be 3 mag changes later, he came back out and said that he tried to turn the screws after the test firing and they would not turn. Now, does that constitute being staked good enough? I dont know. But I think I am going to say screw it and have the gunsmith there restake it so it bites into the heads of the screws more.
Now......here is the kicker. While there me and one of the guys that works there pulled a Colt, Bushmaster, Sig, and a Wyndham Weaponry AR off the rack. Broke them all down and the ONLY one that was staked better than what mine was when I got it back from the factory was the Sig. The Colt wasnt anywhere near biting into the head of the screw and neither was any of the others. So........bad QC all the way around?
Dusty, you really outa go get yourself a BCM complete rifle. You really will be amazed at the quality difference in the parts and assembly between that and a bushy, rra, dpms, wyndham, ect.
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IMO, not properly staked. It is a bit light and just needs to be deepened. The displaced metal from the key should pinch the screw head. A combination of friction and physical barrier of the divot is what holds the screw. Think of a stake doing the job that a lock washer does.
Someone said MOACKS - I agree, DIY.
As for the 'smith firing it and trying to back out the screws. Doesn't really tell anything. It takes more torque to break a fastener than what the torque was stopped at when it was installed. It isn't just getting the part warm for several mags. It is the repeated cycling and vibration of recoil over the course of life of the part/rifle that can back the screws out. So, it's a more long term proposition than anything else.
Anyway, good to see DPMS sending you a new carrier. Hopefully it is good to go. If not, MOACKS.
Here is my WW
Here is the other one (BCM or Noveske)
Thanks Shorts. I went and looked at the MOACK website. Man I wish I knew someone that had one of these staking tools that lived in or near DFW. But if I have to break down and buy one I will.