Filter System for "Brackish" Water?

[matefrio]

For drinking I'd just run it through a Berkey Water Filter.

The filter can last a very long time if you're only using it for drinking water. ~6000 gallons IIRC but that really depends on how much you're filtering.

If you have a well with potable water that's #1. Taste is going to be a secondary concern.

 

[Texan-in-Training]

For drinking I'd just run it through a Berkey Water Filter.

The filter can last a very long time if you're only using it for drinking water. ~6000 gallons IIRC but that really depends on how much you're filtering.

If you have a well with potable water that's #1. Taste is going to be a secondary concern.

When I first started fretting about all this I bought some of the Berkey filter elements so I could jump the fence and bring back a couple of five gallon buckets of water from my neighbors tank and filter it. After a while, that didn't seem like something I wanted to be doing every day so we did the well. (FWIW... we're on "city" water right now, but I don't consider that reliable in a serious emergency). Anyhow I've got the filters, but from what I read at Berkey's site, they won't remove the salt.
In a "pinch", we could suck it up and drink the water (405 ppm Na/1257 TDS isn't supposed to be too bad), but it really does taste like shit.
So I think what I'll do for now is spend a couple of hundred dollars on a Home Depot reverse osmosis system and squirrel it away hoping I never need it. Meanwhile I'll come up with something like a solar distillation system. Thinking about those plastic cement mixing pans with a cut open PVC pipe collection tube in the center, with 6 mil poly as the "window"/condenser. I figure that for a hundred dollars or so, I should be able to buy material for four units...
I sure appreciate everyone's suggestions and thoughts on what I'm trying to do. Again, hopefully we all get to grow old and never deal with this stuff, but "just in case"...

 

[V77]

I saw this a while back when looking at distillers
Production isn't perfect and probably lesser over a fire but still a decent solution

 

[matefrio]

 

[V77]

I have heard not so great things about the quality of that distiller.

Oh wait, I have seen this video before. It looks to be a good solution but I have read and heard mixed things about the quality and materials used

 

[grasshopperglock]

There are three main type of filtration methods: chemical (carbon, liquid additives, etc.), biological (using live organisms for a desired result like nitrosomas for a fish tanks for example), and physical (mechanics to remove particulates such as a micron filter). I don't know of any biological or chemical method to remove salt and don't think there is one. Salt would require a physical method. Reverse osmosis or solar desalination would probably be the only two methods feasible.

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At 405 PPM salt to the water. It's still well below what people consume in food and drinks.

The biological stuff only helps the filter life. Eating and making room for the next 1257 ppm. Being a salt that's not sodium. It's left over fertilizer. Synthetic fertilizers. After a period they build up.

Unless that 1257 is actually rotten bio matter and not a salt. 1257ppm is a hell of lot of synthetic fertilizer. Is there a farm near by? Stuff like ammonium nitrate adds the non saline salts.

 

[Texan-in-Training]

At 405 PPM salt to the water. It's still well below what people consume in food and drinks. 1257ppm is a hell of lot of synthetic fertilizer. Is there a farm near by? Stuff like ammonium nitrate adds the non saline salts.

Been spinning my wheels trying to attach a PDF of A&M's analysis but I can't get anywhere near the file sizes allowed... So I'll do this the hard way. Everything will be ppm except as noted.

Calcium - 2; Magnesium - <1; Sodium - 405; Potassium - 22; Boron - 1.24; Carbonate - 57; Bicarbonate - 220; Sulfate - <1;
Chloride - 548; Nitrate - <0.01; Phosphorus - 0.04; pH - 10.32; Conductivity - 2560 umhos/cm; Hardness - 1 grains CaCO3/gallon;
Hardness - 10 ppm CaCO3; Alkalinity - 275 ppm CaCO3; Total Dissolved Salts (TDS) - 1257

I just added up the more significant numbers and came up with 1254. Looks like the main culprit is salt with a dash of baking soda thrown in...
We're on the northern side of 79 from ALCOA, and I've heard that other people's shallower wells went brackish. Folks tend to blame ALCOA's pumping for it. I can't say one way or another. Our well is 250 ft deep, cased to 190 ft, in the Hooper aquifer (just on the edge, according to the drillers).
I've got a copper pipe fitting in a bottle of the water looking for signs of corrosion... so far, none. My plan is that if the situation ever got bad enough to warrant it, I'd close the valve at the water meter and plumb the well into the house through a pressure tank through an outside faucet. Since that big ol' electric hot water heater would be useless, I'd bypass it with a RO filter system. Cold/well water in, filtered water into the no-longer-hot line.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

At 405 PPM salt to the water. It's still well below what people consume in food and drinks.

The biological stuff only helps the filter life. Eating and making room for the next 1257 ppm. Being a salt that's not sodium. It's left over fertilizer. Synthetic fertilizers. After a period they build up.

Unless that 1257 is actually rotten bio matter and not a salt. 1257ppm is a hell of lot of synthetic fertilizer. Is there a farm near by? Stuff like ammonium nitrate adds the non saline salts.

I've never heard of salt that's not sodium (sodium chloride specifically for common salt).

Been spinning my wheels trying to attach a PDF of A&M's analysis but I can't get anywhere near the file sizes allowed... So I'll do this the hard way. Everything will be ppm except as noted.

Calcium - 2; Magnesium - <1; Sodium - 405; Potassium - 22; Boron - 1.24; Carbonate - 57; Bicarbonate - 220; Sulfate - <1;
Chloride - 548; Nitrate - <0.01; Phosphorus - 0.04; pH - 10.32; Conductivity - 2560 umhos/cm; Hardness - 1 grains CaCO3/gallon;
Hardness - 10 ppm CaCO3; Alkalinity - 275 ppm CaCO3; Total Dissolved Salts (TDS) - 1257

I just added up the more significant numbers and came up with 1254. Looks like the main culprit is salt with a dash of baking soda thrown in...
We're on the northern side of 79 from ALCOA, and I've heard that other people's shallower wells went brackish. Folks tend to blame ALCOA's pumping for it. I can't say one way or another. Our well is 250 ft deep, cased to 190 ft, in the Hooper aquifer (just on the edge, according to the drillers).
I've got a copper pipe fitting in a bottle of the water looking for signs of corrosion... so far, none. My plan is that if the situation ever got bad enough to warrant it, I'd close the valve at the water meter and plumb the well into the house through a pressure tank through an outside faucet. Since that big ol' electric hot water heater would be useless, I'd bypass it with a RO filter system. Cold/well water in, filtered water into the no-longer-hot line.

I'm a little confused, I only see 405 ppm sodium, so where are you getting such high "salt" levels?

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[boomgoesthedynamite]

Isn't TDS total dissolved solids not salts? That could change the issue since you would likely just need a good filter instead of trying to removing specific components. I'm not sure, but I am following this because I plan on having a well in the future when we move out of the "city".

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[stdreb27]

There are three main type of filtration methods: chemical (carbon, liquid additives, etc.), biological (using live organisms for a desired result like nitrosomas for a fish tanks for example), and physical (mechanics to remove particulates such as a micron filter). I don't know of any biological or chemical method to remove salt and don't think there is one. Salt would require a physical method. Reverse osmosis or solar desalination would probably be the only two methods feasible.

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Most accurate post on this page.

 

[Texan-in-Training]

Isn't TDS total dissolved solids not salts?

A&M's analysis form specifically says "Total Dissolved Salts (TDS)" - 1257 ppm.
I apologize. If I'd have looked a little deeper, I could have saved us some of the discussion on terms and definitions.
http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/publications/SCS-2002-10.pdf
Paraphrasing what I just now read... Total Dissolved Salts is interchangeable with Total Dissolved Solids - see Conductivity.
More bad news for me "Sodium Adsorption Ratio (SAR) > 28 "Very high sodium hazard. Generally unsuitable for use" My SAR = 55.9
Hope I can filter it...

 

[stdreb27]

Isn't TDS total dissolved solids not salts? That could change the issue since you would likely just need a good filter instead of trying to removing specific components. I'm not sure, but I am following this because I plan on having a well in the future when we move out of the "city".

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Salt is a solid.



to the OP. In my opinion (and I know just enough to be dangerous) The most effective way to remove sodium from water is evaporation. The second option is reverse osmosis. This is very hard on the system and will destroy the membrane quickly. THAT being said 400 PPM of salt isn't very much salt. For instance a water softener can hit 300 ppm in your system.

SOOOOO all that to say, your water run through an RO system should be fine. You'll have a shortened life on your membrane (at 50 bucks a pop). I had an RO system behind a water softener. And I had to change out the membrane about once a year.

Here is the catch. Judging from your photo, the well looks like it's Not hooked up to any sort of pressurized system. RO systems don't work. So you'd need a pump and a pressure tank too.

Also, if you're going to get an RO system. Look for one targeted to the aquarium trade. They'll have higher output and cost much less than one for a drinking water application.

My RO system is from http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ they're super nice guys. Answer all your questions. And sell good stuff.

 

[Texan-in-Training]

SOOOOO all that to say, your water run through an RO system should be fine. You'll have a shortened life on your membrane (at 50 bucks a pop). I had an RO system behind a water softener. And I had to change out the membrane about once a year.

Here is the catch. Judging from your photo, the well looks like it's Not hooked up to any sort of pressurized system. RO systems don't work. So you'd need a pump and a pressure tank too.
Also, if you're going to get an RO system. Look for one targeted to the aquarium trade. They'll have higher output and cost much less than one for a drinking water application.
My RO system is from http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ they're super nice guys. Answer all your questions. And sell good stuff.

For sure I'll be getting in touch with them. Question: Can you stockpile the membranes (cartridges?) ?? Do they have a shelf life to be concerned about?
Right now I have a 86 gallon pressure tank I would run at about 30 PSI, pumping from the hand pump (long term plan is 500 gallon storage tank filled by a solar 24 VDC pump adapter system,then a transfer pump to the pressure tank. Will 30 PSI be adequate for the RO filter? Simple Pump warns to not exceed 50 PSI (I suspect the sucker rods could come apart).

 

[stdreb27]

For sure I'll be getting in touch with them. Question: Can you stockpile the membranes (cartridges?) ?? Do they have a shelf life to be concerned about?
Right now I have a 86 gallon pressure tank I would run at about 30 PSI, pumping from the hand pump (long term plan is 500 gallon storage tank filled by a solar 24 VDC pump adapter system,then a transfer pump to the pressure tank. Will 30 PSI be adequate for the RO filter? Simple Pump warns to not exceed 50 PSI (I suspect the sucker rods could come apart).

Talk to you well guy. There are a couple different ways to pressurize a water system.



Target is around 50psi (verify the #).

You can also buy supplemental pressure pumps. To supply water to your system.


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[grasshopperglock]

I've never heard of salt that's not sodium (sodium chloride specifically for common salt).

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Things like iron suflate....copperas are salts. Things like iron, copper, magnesium, potassium and so forth are used by plants. However, they can't absorb it unless it's in a water soluble/usable form. When it's converted to a salt. The trace elements are available for immediate pick up. (Adsorption).

The elements in their base forms have to, for better word for it, rot. Broken down by microorganisms in the soil. Which takes time. It's not really predictable when the elements will be converted into a usable form. It might take months, days, a year.

Enter, synthetic fertilizers. Where the elements are converted to salts. The devil in the details. Some of it isn't water soluble and leaves behind 'salt' in the soil.

Over time, these salts build up. Then you get reactions to where some elements are locked out from adsorption.

This is why, plants need drainage. The drainage removes the excess salt from the root area....and that drainage carries the salts somewhere.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Adding to the discussion of what tool to use to check the water.

There's TDS(total dissolved solids) meters and EC meters. (Electronic conductivity). It's Glock verse a 1911 discussion. Both do the same job but accomplish it in different ways.

The meters cost the same and you get meters that have both.

Texas A&M evaporated the water leaving behind the impurities. Then tested what was left in the test tube. The most accurate way.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Things like iron suflate....copperas are salts. Things like iron, copper, magnesium, potassium and so forth are used by plants. However, they can't absorb it unless it's in a water soluble/usable form. When it's converted to a salt. The trace elements are available for immediate pick up. (Adsorption).

The elements in their base forms have to, for better word for it, rot. Broken down by microorganisms in the soil. Which takes time. It's not really predictable when the elements will be converted into a usable form. It might take months, days, a year.

Enter, synthetic fertilizers. Where the elements are converted to salts. The devil in the details. Some of it isn't water soluble and leaves behind 'salt' in the soil.

Over time, these salts build up. Then you get reactions to where some elements are locked out from adsorption.

This is why, plants need drainage. The drainage removes the excess salt from the root area....and that drainage carries the salts somewhere.

But we're talking about salt water (brackish in this case), so sodium based salts. Unless fertilizer is introducing sodium, what you're talking about is a different issue, I would think.

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[Texan-in-Training]

But we're talking about salt water (brackish in this case), so sodium based salts. Unless fertilizer is introducing sodium, what you're talking about is a different issue, I would think.

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The water analysis shows nitrate, sulfate, and phosphorous to be close to zero. My very limited knowledge of fertilizers tell me that this doesn't seem to be the issue.

 

[TheDan]

I've never heard of salt that's not sodium (sodium chloride specifically for common salt).

Salt is just a type of compound. There's tons of naturally occurring salts.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Salt is just a type of compound. There's tons of naturally occurring salts.

I meant for brackish water in this scenario, sorry, but you are right. Salt is just the byproduct of a chemical reaction. Should have be clearer.

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