Ever want to buy a used gun but...

[diesel1959]

I dont have a problem signing a bill of sale. I dont require one when I sell, but I do ask to see a Tx DL or LTC though. Why, you ask? A long time ago when I was a kid, my dad bought a ruger 357 single action from a FFL. It was blued and dad finally sold it and bought a stainless model. A year or so later, two detectives show up at the door, asking dad about the revolver. Apparently, the guy he sold it to shot a cop with it. Cops got the gun, ran the serial number, and linked it to dad. Dad had to go testify in court as to who he sold it to. There was no paperwork, so it was his word. Guy went to prison.

Buying and selling without a paper trail is fine, most times. It is just those very small number of times that it isnt fine, that really matter.

So, he went and testified and no harm befell your dad. The LACK of a bill of sale did no harm.

 

[dmh]

Those are called yankees

I found corn in mine in the Northeast .... Left the corn in the bowl.

 

[diesel1959]

Despite most of the sentiment here legally speaking a BOS with photo IDs of both parties is not a bad idea. It protects the seller if the buyer does something nefarious with the gun and it is traced back to the seller. It protects the buyer if the seller after the transfer reports the gun as stolen. The second case actually happened to me once. One more thing...those of you criticizing the person selling this for requiring BOS certainly have the right to not buy the gun, just as the person selling it certainly has the right to require the BOS. Ain't the USA great?

a private bill of sale protects no one and nothing. It is as helpful as a lollipop to a diabetic.

 

[aussamdad]

Newbie here, I have always bought new but now looking to get into some vintage weapons...so thx for bringing this subject up again. New read for me. So to me the BOS is just a piece of paper to point a finger at if something comes up in the future about the weapon involved. Is the correct?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

 

[seeker_two]

View attachment 209555

You got a BOS for those?....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Axxe55]

Newbie here, I have always bought new but now looking to get into some vintage weapons...so thx for bringing this subject up again. New read for me. So to me the BOS is just a piece of paper to point a finger at if something comes up in the future about the weapon involved. Is the correct?

I think that you should exercise a bit of common sense.

Look at what firearms are being offered for sale. Look at the asking price. If possible, find out what you can about the seller.

Listen to your gut instinct. And if the price, or the item seems to good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Dawico]

"NEVER?" Let me be the first then. In 2015 I bought a Colt Python from in individual for $1750.00. I bought it because I knew I could sell it for far more. I had a BOS. In fact it was I the buyer who insisted on it. Some months later I consigned the gun to my trusted FFL to sell. In the meantime the POS who sold it to me reported it as stolen. So when it sold I got a call from the FFL. Because I was able to easily prove I had legally purchased it the matter was quickly resolved...at least for me. The POS was charged with falsely reporting a crime, and insurance fraud.

So you bought a firearm to resell for profit?

I sure hope you are a dealer. If not you have paperwork that can now be used to prosecute you along with your post here.

 

[rotor]

13 pages. Exceeded my expectations.

 

[Glenn B]

You should go read the old posts on BOS There has never been a case reported where a BOS has saved someone yet there are several cases it ended up with the seller in jail due to the BOS and if there was no BOS chances are they would have not been charged.

So ya USA is great but just because you can do something does not mean you should.

So, if you know about criminal prosecutions, you would know that when evidence exonerates someone, as a BOS might do, the case is often not brought to the point of an arrest let alone a prosecution and a trial. So why would such a case be reported; do you think a law enforcement officer or prosecutor will report that to the press? Do you think the media or their readers/viewers like happy endings for a potential defendant who was instead exonerated - in a gun sale related case - because a BOS was instrumental? I for one tend to doubt it and think they are not looking to make us look like law abiding citizens but just the opposite is what floats their boat - to make us looked like gun-law violating criminals.

By the way - have you noticed that some posters in the anti-BOS crowd have mentioned that a BOS is not evidence and is essentially a totally useless piece of paper? If that is correct - how then were they ever used in a criminal prosecution as evidence? Are they only used as legitimate evidence for the prosecution and not for the defense; that would certainly be a new twist in criminal justice in this country!

It is, I think, very convenient for the non-BOS crowd to post about how they can find no cases having been reported wherein someone has been exonerated by a BOS but they ignore, or are ignorant of, what I just mentioned. They also boast they are in the great majority when it comes to whether or not to use them. Again, I think that is very convenient as I suppose many folks will not enter the fray in the various threads on the subject because of, how should I put it, the lack of civility in some of their replies to those who choose to use or to support the use of a BOS. So yes they, as some of them claim, may be in the majority of posters on the subject (and I've yet to tally that to check it) but until they are also in the majority of all the registered users on this site, I see that as little proof of anything other than them possibly being in the majority of posters, in the various threads about BOS, on this site who support the BOS. It does not make them necessarily in the majority of TX gun owners when it comes to how the majority of gun owners in TX think about whether or not to use a BOS.

I note, others in Texas evidently disagree about the potential usefulness of a BOS and sites such as Texas Gun Trader apparently recommend the use of a BOS by way of offering a BOS template. In addition, when I've sold guns at gun shows here in Texas (and I've sold a few), I've only had one guy walk away when I told him I needed to see his driver's license and would do a BOS (and in truth my guess would be he was a gang member based on some of my observations of him and his pal so I was happy he walked away). All the others readily agreed to do a BOS - even the guy who bought the gun that other guy walked away from when I asked the other guy for ID to complete a BOS.

 

[rotor]

So you bought a firearm to resell for profit?

I sure hope you are a dealer. If not you have paperwork that can now be used to prosecute you along with your post here.

Does that mean he is in the "Business" of buying or selling firearms? Buying one gun with plans on selling it for a profit does not mean one is in the business of selling firearms.

 

[avvidclif]

Does that mean he is in the "Business" of buying or selling firearms? Buying one gun with plans on selling it for a profit does not mean one is in the business of selling firearms.

Might check with ATF as in the past 1 sale made a dealer.

 

[Shady]

It has been shown over and over in past posts if you want to know do a search. Its not worth rehashing and reposting for the 9999 time

So, if you know about criminal prosecutions, you would know that when evidence exonerates someone, as a BOS might do, the case is often not brought to the point of an arrest let alone a prosecution and a trial. So why would such a case be reported; do you think a law enforcement officer or prosecutor will report that to the press? Do you think the media or their readers/viewers like happy endings for a potential defendant who was instead exonerated - in a gun sale related case - because a BOS was instrumental? I for one tend to doubt it and think they are not looking to make us look like law abiding citizens but just the opposite is what floats their boat - to make us looked like gun-law violating criminals.

By the way - have you noticed that some posters in the anti-BOS crowd have mentioned that a BOS is not evidence and is essentially a totally useless piece of paper? If that is correct - how then were they ever used in a criminal prosecution as evidence? Are they only used as legitimate evidence for the prosecution and not for the defense; that would certainly be a new twist in criminal justice in this country!

It is, I think, very convenient for the non-BOS crowd to post about how they can find no cases having been reported wherein someone has been exonerated by a BOS but they ignore, or are ignorant of, what I just mentioned. They also boast they are in the great majority when it comes to whether or not to use them. Again, I think that is very convenient as I suppose many folks will not enter the fray in the various threads on the subject because of, how should I put it, the lack of civility in some of their replies to those who choose to use or to support the use of a BOS. So yes they, as some of them claim, may be in the majority of posters on the subject (and I've yet to tally that to check it) but until they are also in the majority of all the registered users on this site, I see that as little proof of anything other than them possibly being in the majority of posters, in the various threads about BOS, on this site who support the BOS. It does not make them necessarily in the majority of TX gun owners when it comes to how the majority of gun owners in TX think about whether or not to use a BOS.

I note, others in Texas evidently disagree about the potential usefulness of a BOS and sites such as Texas Gun Trader apparently recommend the use of a BOS by way of offering a BOS template. In addition, when I've sold guns at gun shows here in Texas (and I've sold a few), I've only had one guy walk away when I told him I needed to see his driver's license and would do a BOS (and in truth my guess would be he was a gang member based on some of my observations of him and his pal so I was happy he walked away). All the others readily agreed to do a BOS - even the guy who bought the gun that other guy walked away from when I asked the other guy for ID to complete a BOS.

 

[rotor]

Might check with ATF as in the past 1 sale made a dealer.

This was from ATF site. I guess one can argue the word repetitive. We have a member helping a woman sell her deceased husband's collection. Is he in need of a license? Is the widow in need of a license? I would also look at the term "principal motive of making a profit". I don't think our member helping a woman dispose of a collection or an individual buying one gun with plans to make a profit require a license. Do you?

From ATF
"As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed"

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Apple meet orange....

 

[Shady]

well when you Assume you make an ASS out of you.

 

[Coyote9]

I like the calm rational discussion here and ha ve now changed my criteria to viewing a current LTC and matching ID then no paperwork. Thanks to the folk for thoughtful responses. Well worth sifting thru the rants.

 

[IMPD2079]

If I trade a gun with somebody, we fill out a paper with description of the guns and our CHL info. That way if either of us receive a stolen gun then it covers your a$$.

 

[TXP]

Even after 14 pages of comments, I'm sticking with my preference of having a BoS. I'll still want to see a valid TX DL, but I'm not going to take a pic or record anything other than their name on the BoS. Both parties will get a BoS. I'll sometimes also want to see a LTC, but that is only because I will give a little discount for fellow LTC'rs.

On one occasion, it killed a deal because the guy buying it wasn't the same one that I talked to. It turned out to be a straw purchase.

 

[Axxe55]

Apple meet orange....

Orange you glad they met? LOL!