Dealing with collection agents

[SC-Texas]

I always find it interesting to watch those who pontificate about the law being the law get on their soapbox when the LAW doesn't happen to coincide with whatever they want to happen to someone that they know knowing about.

A good example is the superlien that credit card companies got as a gift form the Bush whitehouse preventing discharge of credit card debt in bankruptcy.

Now these are the same card companies that issue credit cards to people pets and 18 year old college students.

And the some ones that issues sketchy mortgage loans that casued the depression and the loss of so many jobs and the loss of such value from out retirement plans.

The same companies that You and i just bailed out.

 

[dublin]

This is the norm. Insurance companies get an "adjusted charge" for service. Pay cash and you get the "stick in the eye" price. One of the many things about our health care system that needs to be fixed. If the medical industry would make minor, much needed fixes, it would be much easier to take the wind out of the Obamacare sail. If Obamacare passes, it is the Health Care industry's own fault.

Yep, anyone left without insurance is absolutely raped with the rates and the insurance company will pay next to nothing. I received a bill for $19,000 from a hospital, the adjusted rate that insurance had to pay was about $3500.

 

[fnmedallion]

To most honorable people a debt is a debt until paid or forgiven by the holder of the note. Sure you can out wait them and obviously you can live with that. I am just glad you warned all on this board to beware.

several true colors being shown

 

[SC-Texas]

But what is the debt?

How about this one: Wife, without telling husband, opens $11k line of credit. Doesn't pay, actively hides the fact that she opened this line of credit and ran it up. Uses a differnet phone number so Husband won;t get the calls, gets to the mail before the husband, it turns into $19,000.00 debt.

does husband owe it?

Morally?

Legally?

Lets see how you quick to pass judgment moral boys come out on this one.

I want to see your colors . . .

 

[TexasRedneck]

I think the key thing to me is intent...sometimes, things happen, and there's just no way to take care of things. Other times, folks actually plan (and brag) about how they "got over". The wife running a card up? If he stays with her - yeah, he owes it, because he's condoning her actions. But that's just me....

 

[Texas42]

. . .have seen hospitals and doctors who charge medicare $300.00 for an MRI and $100.00 for an ER visit charge individuals $1,500.00 for the same services. they then turn around and send these people to bill collectors.

Just something to think about

Medicare sets the re-imbursement rate. MD's could bill them for a million dollars and they'd get the same hundred bucks. All the MD's I knoew lose money on their medicare patients. Not make less money, lose money. I have worked for a MD's office as a summer job before I got into medical school. The person in charge of billing was fairly new, which means that she made a lot of mistakes. Those mistakes ended up being written off as a rule.

Insurance companies all had their different rules. If you didn't follow them to the dot, they didn't pay. That is the way they work. The office only got about 60% or 50% of the money they billed on average.

 

[GlockontheRocks]

Here, try this one on for size. My first cousin, 26 y.o., opens up 5 credit cards in my Uncle's name with the son as a signer on the account. Kid quits his job runs the credit cards up to about 32K in debt in one year. My uncle had no idea that his dumb ass kid had done this. After a couple of years, Uncle goes in for a car loan, and his lifelong loan officer rejects his application due to bad debt. He had no idea that his son had run this crap on him. Freakin' idiot cousin lives at home would get the mail daily to hide the bills from his dad. He had the home phone number changed due to "people calling and hanging up". My uncle is on a very limited income and had been very cautious keeping his credit in order. What would you do?

 

[RetArmySgt]

Sue the son and file charges.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Here, try this one on for size. My first cousin, 26 y.o., opens up 5 credit cards in my Uncle's name with the son as My uncle is on a very limited income and had been very cautious keeping his credit in order. What would you do?

No need to sue the son. File theft charges (call the CC companies and the local PD). The D.A. will file charges on the punk and send him away for a while, with any luck!

ETA - in ID theft cases, the victim has *zero* liability/responsibility.

 

[SC-Texas]

Point is nothing is as claer cut as lots of hte quick to judge folks make it out.

 

[TheDan]

Yep, anyone left without insurance is absolutely raped with the rates and the insurance company will pay next to nothing. I received a bill for $19,000 from a hospital, the adjusted rate that insurance had to pay was about $3500.

You can always negotiate. The girlfriend recently had to have surgery when she didn't have insurance. Of course the bill was huge but she managed to get them to come down quite a bit and set her up with an affordable payment plan... and she's a terrible negotiator to boot, lol.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

A debt is a debt and you should pay it, but I know what you're going through. I've got at least two following me right now that I do not owe. I've notified them that it's not my debt, it's disputed and sent "cease and desist" letters to no avail. A few months later, another collection agency picks up up and again tries to get blood from a turnip.

ADP is after me for about $200 because they continued to bill me for a year after I repeatedly notified them I had canceled their service. A medical lab is after me for an X-ray they billed for twice. I paid the first one, but refused to pay the second billing. They go away for a while, then come back and try again.

Many years ago, my business took a nose dive and I was unable to keep up with a particular payment. I eventually negotiated a settlement and took care of the debt. This was like blood in the water. Every shark "collection agency" on earth began calling me, claiming I owed money (I didn't!) and they'd offer me a great deal to settle. Basically, they look at you one of two ways: You're a deadbeat if you don't pay your debt, but you're a sucker if you do.

Yes... pay your debts. On the other hand, collection agencies are the scum of the earth.

 

[MiTX]

There are very specific rules that are to be followed on debt collection.
Problem is, so many people are unaware that though they owe the debt, they do have the right to not be harassed at work and after telling the company ONE TIME, it should cease and desist immediately. If not, there are grounds for suit on the part of the debtor.
If you receive a phone call from a debtor at work, ask for the caller's name and ask if it is being recorded, if it is, all the better. Get a phone number, address, and follow up with a request in writing by certified return receipt. THAT makes it even more official and places them on full notice.
These types of calls could cost someone their job and lose the ability to pay!
I deal with people on a daily basis that are disputing items on their credit report.
Like an 18 year old trying to rent for the first time and due to some moron getting their SS number, they have a mortgage in NY from 1989 that they defaulted on, when their DOB is 1983. So at the age of 6 they signed and defaulted on a mortgage? Reality and logistics do not enter into the equation when dealing with folks determined to collect a debt at all costs.
The problem is that it is the responsibility of the person who is harmed to get it cleared up, which is a nightmare in and of itself.
It does pay to check your credit report.
That being said, as someone who has the responsibility of things that could be reported to a collection agency, I make sure they are fair.
Did you know, that if you broke a lease and the apartment complex decided (as most will do) to accelerate your lease (charge for the entire lease) yet the apartment was leased within that period, they should, by law, amend the amount due, as they cannot legally collect rent from two different sources even of there was a breach of contract?
The "BAD DEBT" write off is for loss of income. If they are making income on a unit that is leased again, they cannot charge you for it, in addition to charging the new tenant.
THEN, if the apartment entity cannot tell you when the apartment was re-let, or was re-let within your lease period you do not owe the monies demanded, without proof. Many apartment complexes change hands on a regular basis and will tack on debt to the last known leaseholder, regardless of status, due to lost receipts, written notices to vacate, etc.
The worst is when a complex has shut down and the person who owes the alleged debt cannot locate anyone to tell them what it is for, which in and of itself runs afoul of the collection laws!

I am all for paying my debts, but so many businesses are selling bad debt to any Joe Blow collection agency and they do not care.
I had a collection agency that called regarding a medical debt that was in process with the insurance company at one point and that was explained to the collection idiot on the other end. The calls continued and I would set the phone down in front of a stereo speaker, or set it in front of the television, blasting something into their ear and walk away. The insurance company paid and the calls stopped.
These collection people are relentless and this is what they get paid to do! Make sure the debt is REAL.
If it is yours, pay it off.

ALWAYS check the validity of any debt someone says you owe.
If it is yours, plain and simple... pay it.

 

[Cyberlink]

I read through this and am left scratching my head. To everyone who has taken the stance "A debt is a debt until you pay it off" What about bankruptcy?

If I was to run up a bunch of unsecured CC debt, then file bankruptcy the debt goes away and I get a bad mark on my credit for 10 years. Do you consider bankruptcy wrong? Do you think people should pay off debt after the bankruptcy, even when the court nulls the debt?

 

[The_Hunter]

I read through this and am left scratching my head. To everyone who has taken the stance "A debt is a debt until you pay it off" What about bankruptcy?

If I was to run up a bunch of unsecured CC debt, then file bankruptcy the debt goes away and I get a bad mark on my credit for 10 years. Do you consider bankruptcy wrong? Do you think people should pay off debt after the bankruptcy, even when the court nulls the debt?

If you run up the CC debt with with the intention of filing bankruptcy you need ta take a good long look at yourself

 

[TexasRedneck]

There is no hard-and-fast rule on this - and that's the bottom line. If someone purposely tries to run out the time line to avoid an honest debt, that's wrong. If someone has a collection agency after them on a bogus debt, then by all means - there are no rules, play to win. I've been on both sides - I've had honest debts that because of my own stupidity got out of control, and I've had debts placed on me through no fault of my own.
Years ago, my first divorce resulted in significant financial issues - I owed everyone and their dog (or so it seemed), and I worked through each debt one at a time. It took me 5 years of hard work, but at the end of the time every debt I'd owed had been paid in full. Of all of them, only one tried to play "hardball", and I played it back - reminding them that I was trying to PAY the debt rather than take the advice of my attorney and file bankruptcy, because they WERE debts that I had incurred. It was a real bitch, but finally getting it done gave ME peace of mind.
The 2nd divorce...<yeah, I'm a slow learner>....sheesh! Had a REAL winner on my hands that not only drained my 401k from an employer I worked for for 21 years, but she further had taken out all kinds of credit in MY name. Sears, for example - I was the ONLY authorized user on the card, yet she managed to charge up $3k in the months leading up to our split. I filed fraud affadavits w/them and told them I would NOT pay the debt, since the charges were not only made without authorization, but were not even for items for my use/benefit. They chased me for almost a year, until I got fed up and turned it over to my attorney. They ended up dropping the claim... Then there was American Honda. Had a Goldwing - turned out she wasn't making the payments (she'd "helpfully" offered to take care of making the household bill payments). I found out the day I left that I was 3 or 4 months behind. I called them, offered to wire transfer or hand-deliver the payment, plus enough extra to be 2 payments ahead. I understood WHY they were ticked, but I was TRYING to make it right. They told me "NO!" - they wanted the bike back, and intended to pursue me for the difference, and that I'd never be able to get credit again. That was cool....I dropped the bike off at a local Honda dealer (where I knew the management) and told Honda where to stuff it. They kept after me for 4-5 years, and frankly I felt that I didn't owe them, because had they taken the $$$ offered initially, I would have been easily able to have kept the payments up - but THEY called my hand, and I figured they could go hang. Those were the ONLY two bills I refuse(d) to pay, and I don't regret it. Everyone else got their money due them.
Yeah - it took me a while, but I recovered. When I bought a new Goldwing 3 years later, the dealer offered me Honda financing...<G> The kicker? I was ALREADY approved by them on the bike! Needless to say, I didn't take it - I had other financing options to go with.
There IS a statute of limitations on debt - and where it's appropriate, it's not bad to use it. I did have an old debt pop up last year - got a letter from a collection agency, and called. Turned out to be an old credit card. Called the card, asked 'em why it took 10 years to "find". They were actually nice about it - turns out that when I'd paid the card off, there was some minor amount left (like a coupla bucks) that was due to interest between the statement date and payment posting. The gal I spoke with looked at everything - with all the fees and all, it had grown to like $3-400, and said "look, this is obviously a mess-up, because I dont' show where we ever sent you another statement - I'm going to credit the account back and close this out." She not only did so, she followed up with it in writing in case it ever came back. I would have been perfectly willing to have paid the small amount, because it was legitimate, but it wasn't necessary. Did I truly owe it? Yes. Did I LEGALLY owe it? Not after so much time had passed.
I guess my bottom line is: If I am not willing to stand up in front of peers and defend my actions, then I'm wrong.
WAY more'n most of ya wanted to know, I'm sure....

 

[Greg_TX]

How about getting collection calls for a family member? My mother-in-law owned a printing business that went under in '08. She filed bankruptcy and sold off everything she could from the business to pay debts, but it wasn't enough to settle everything. The people she owed for paper and supplies turned the accounts over to one or more collection agencies. For months now, we've been getting calls to our house asking if my MIL is there. I explain that, no, she doesn't live here. Then they ask if I know how to get in touch with her, at which point I remind them that I owe them nothing and am not obligated to talk to them - finding her is their problem, not mine. What was odd was the last one... they asked for the MIL, and then asked to talk to my wife, but they asked for my wife by her maiden name that she hasn't used in 20 years. That really made me wonder where they get their information from.

If I have the time and right frame of mind, I'll play with them a bit:

Them: "Sir, we really need to discuss this account"
Me: "But I don't owe you anything"
Them: "This is the name and contact number we were given, sir"
<time to start sounding a little creepy>
Me: "I'd rather talk about you instead ... So, what are you wearing?"
Them: "Sir ...?"
Me: "Well, you have a nice voice and I'm trying to form a picture of you in my mind"
Them: "Sir, I must remind you that this call is recorded!"
Me: "Do you wear a thong?"
Them: "Sir! I did not call to discuss that!"
Me: "So you DO have a thong! Hey, I really want to meet you - I promise it will be exciting ..."

And so forth ... keep it up until they think they've called a sex-crazed serial killer and hang up.

 

[MiTX]

How about getting collection calls for a family member? My mother-in-law owned a printing business that went under in '08. She filed bankruptcy and sold off everything she could from the business to pay debts, but it wasn't enough to settle everything. The people she owed for paper and supplies turned the accounts over to one or more collection agencies. For months now, we've been getting calls to our house asking if my MIL is there. I explain that, no, she doesn't live here. Then they ask if I know how to get in touch with her, at which point I remind them that I owe them nothing and am not obligated to talk to them - finding her is their problem, not mine. What was odd was the last one... they asked for the MIL, and then asked to talk to my wife, but they asked for my wife by her maiden name that she hasn't used in 20 years. That really made me wonder where they get their information from.

If I have the time and right frame of mind, I'll play with them a bit:

Them: "Sir, we really need to discuss this account"
Me: "But I don't owe you anything"
Them: "This is the name and contact number we were given, sir"
<time to start sounding a little creepy>
Me: "I'd rather talk about you instead ... So, what are you wearing?"
Them: "Sir ...?"
Me: "Well, you have a nice voice and I'm trying to form a picture of you in my mind"
Them: "Sir, I must remind you that this call is recorded!"
Me: "Do you wear a thong?"
Them: "Sir! I did not call to discuss that!"
Me: "So you DO have a thong! Hey, I really want to meet you - I promise it will be exciting ..."

And so forth ... keep it up until they think they've called a sex-crazed serial killer and hang up.

OMG! I am laughing my fanny off!

 

[Wolfwood]

 

[willygene]

I would just tell them i have to put them on hold for a bit and set the phone down and go about my day once they hang up they have spoken to you and cant call back untill the next day.