Confused

[ohhrico1969]

I am new to the forums and I wanted to to say hello. I enjoy a good spirited debate on issues. I am not into "name-calling" or that kind of thing, just honest discussions with people who are not "thin skinned."

I have often wondered why people who consider themselves "Republican" feel so strongly about big government infringing on their personal rights and such when the party tends to want to "force" their religious and moral beliefs on others especially through legislation? Why would they not support the Libertarian Party who truly believe in personal freedoms instead of a party that has a small percentage of religious conservatives who control(or has controlled) the platform of the party? It's kind of hypocritical for a party to say no big government to tell me how to live my life "except when it comes to abortion or what happens in my bedroom! Then its ok!"

Thoughts?

 

[Clockwork]

Sometimes I wonder if people consider themselves Republican or Democrat simply for the fact that they've ALWAYS considered themselves Republican or Democrat, and maybe even their parents before them. A lot of people in both of those parties would be much better served by supporting the Libertarian party, which has been a frequent topic of discussion on this forum lately. That being the reeducation of American voters so they don't see things as simple as being Red or Blue.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. Thanks for joining.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Ummm...on the abortion issue I'll simply say that when someone wants to take the life of an innocent soul, I *do* have issue with it. What someone does behind the doors of their home, I could care less. Don't always believe the slant the media puts on things. Now, a coupla guys wantin' to swap spit in public....yeah, I'm gonna have a problem with that, because that IS a crime against nature that they're now putting on public display.

 

[Clockwork]

Now, a coupla guys wantin' to swap spit in public....yeah, I'm gonna have a problem with that, because that IS a crime against nature that they're now putting on public display.

What about a couple of hot chicks?

 

[ohhrico1969]

Ummm...on the abortion issue I'll simply say that when someone wants to take the life of an innocent soul, I *do* have issue with it. What someone does behind the doors of their home, I could care less. Don't always believe the slant the media puts on things. Now, a coupla guys wantin' to swap spit in public....yeah, I'm gonna have a problem with that, because that IS a crime against nature that they're now putting on public display.

Hey TR, but isn't that the the point? At what point does a baby become a "soul" @ conception when the baby is just being "formed"? And what about cases or rape or incest? or when the mother is a young child that is the victim of both? And even though I am not an advocate of abortion does allowing the government to legislate and mandate what we can do with our bodies open the door to laws and regulations on tattoos or piercings or the kind of sex we have?

As heterosexuals can we dismiss the existence of gays because we may not agree with their lifestyle? I mean we may not understand their lifestyle but should they be punished for it? Should we have "laws" against it? And does that also open the door for big government to make more decisions on our lives based on what"they" feel is right and correct?

I just don't think we can have it both ways. Government stay out of our lives with the issues that are important to us but regulate others with issues that are important to them and its ok because "hey they don't affect us."

 

[ohhrico1969]

Sometimes I wonder if people consider themselves Republican or Democrat simply for the fact that they've ALWAYS considered themselves Republican or Democrat, and maybe even their parents before them. A lot of people in both of those parties would be much better served by supporting the Libertarian party, which has been a frequent topic of discussion on this forum lately. That being the reeducation of American voters so they don't see things as simple as being Red or Blue.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. Thanks for joining.

Great point. I would agree. Where I grew up was predominantly Democrat and I thought I should be as well, because after all, they care most about the common man right? That was until I got older and researched for myself and started thinking about what was most important to me. I feel so bad that we are stuck on this two party system. Their are so many people who are fiscal conservatives, who believe in personal freedoms who don't fit in the GOP and it aint like the two parties have done such a "bang up" job as it is.

 

[ohhrico1969]

Great point. I would agree. Where I grew up was predominantly Democrat and I thought I should be as well, because after all, they care most about the common man right? That was until I got older and researched for myself and started thinking about what was most important to me. I feel so bad that we are stuck on this two party system. Their are so many people who are fiscal conservatives, who believe in personal freedoms who don't fit in the GOP and it aint like the two parties have done such a "bang up" job as it is.

BYW thanks for the welcome!!

 

[deputy]

This is a Country of over 300 milion people..............with only two viable political parties for representation. This leads to an awful lot of compromises and little representation at the federal level.

So much compromising of principles means a vote for the lesser of two evils.

 

[boycan]

This is a Country of over 300 milion people..............with only two viable political parties for representation. This leads to an awful lot of compromises and little representation at the federal level.

So much compromising of principles means a vote for the lesser of two evils.

And as much as I would LOVE to have a viable third party, this Great Country is and always will be a two party system

 

[Clockwork]

And as much as I would LOVE to have a viable third party, this Great Country is and always will be a two party system

It will always be a two party system with voters who have that attitude. It wasn't even always Democrats and Republicans, if you recall. There used to be the Federalist party (George Washington, John Adams) and the Democratic-Republican party (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison). Things change over time... as voters, it is our duty to ensure that things change for the better. Currently I see a lot of things in this country changing for the worse, and I'm not just talking about this single administration -- things have been headed down a slippery slope for a long time thanks to BOTH parties.

 

[res1b3uq]

The libertarians are split as bad as the other two, and some of their " leaders " believe in things I cannot accept. They will never be unified enough to be a player. I was interested, contributed a little money, watched their convention, and dismissed them.

 

[boycan]

It will always be a two party system with voters who have that attitude. It wasn't even always Democrats and Republicans, if you recall. There used to be the Federalist party (George Washington, John Adams) and the Democratic-Republican party (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison). Things change over time... as voters, it is our duty to ensure that things change for the better. Currently I see a lot of things in this country changing for the worse, and I'm not just talking about this single administration -- things have been headed down a slippery slope for a long time thanks to BOTH parties.

Just because thats my attitude doesn't mean that's the way I want it, I vote out of the parties it just never works

 

[Clockwork]

The libertarians are split as bad as the other two, and some of their " leaders " believe in things I cannot accept. They will never be unified enough to be a player. I was interested, contributed a little money, watched their convention, and dismissed them.

They come from all across the spectrum as far as being left or right go but they do agree on limited government and an emphasis on an individual's liberties which is where I think a lot of people will find common ground to stand together and say "Don't **** with the country that our forefathers spilled their blood to entrust to us so that we may entrust it to future generations."

Just because thats my attitude doesn't mean that's the way I want it, I vote out of the parties it just never works

Believe me, I feel you. Don't give up on it yet, it may not happen in the next ten, twenty, or hell, fifty years -- but that doesn't mean that it isn't the right thing to do. Keep on fighting the good fight.

 

[ohhrico1969]

It will always be a two party system with voters who have that attitude. It wasn't even always Democrats and Republicans, if you recall. There used to be the Federalist party (George Washington, John Adams) and the Democratic-Republican party (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison). Things change over time... as voters, it is our duty to ensure that things change for the better. Currently I see a lot of things in this country changing for the worse, and I'm not just talking about this single administration -- things have been headed down a slippery slope for a long time thanks to BOTH parties.

Thank you Clockwork! I applaud you and agree with you 150 percent!! Ideally we should stop voting for "parties" and start putting in individuals who represent our voices. This would be better litmus test of what the country wants in terms of legislation. Those that don't do what they campaign on, give them hell or have some sort of censuring! I know that is "DREAM" BUT ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON!?!? The "dream" that this will be a government run "by the people for the people"?

If you were my next door neighbor, i would run over with my bottle of Maker's Mark and pour you a generous glass! LOL!

 

[M. Sage]

Ummm...on the abortion issue I'll simply say that when someone wants to take the life of an innocent soul, I *do* have issue with it. What someone does behind the doors of their home, I could care less. Don't always believe the slant the media puts on things. Now, a coupla guys wantin' to swap spit in public....yeah, I'm gonna have a problem with that, because that IS a crime against nature that they're now putting on public display.

It doesn't only happen in the human world... And personally I'm not too fond of any couples getting it on in public. Get a room.

 

[blacksheep]

I'm a Libertarian, you want to slap @ss with another dude ? fine, you want a abortion great, you pay for it without taxpayer finance.

 

[Texas42]

And personally I'm not too fond of any couples getting it on in public. Get a room.

+1

I see a lot of things as right and wrong, and a lot of things as not my business. Just because I think abortion should be illegal, does not mean I'm pushing my religion on you. We all have morality.

Clockwork, correct me if I'm wrong my history could be a little fuzzy, the three party system only occured because one party was essentially dieing. The "Libertarian" cause hurts the "Republican" cause (and vice versa). Yeah, I wish that wasn't the case, but I really don't see any way to change it.

 

[Clockwork]

The Democratic-Republican party was a single party, not a typo where I actually meant it was two separate parties.

 

[ohhrico1969]

+1

I see a lot of things as right and wrong, and a lot of things as not my business. Just because I think abortion should be illegal, does not mean I'm pushing my religion on you. We all have morality.

Clockwork, correct me if I'm wrong my history could be a little fuzzy, the three party system only occured because one party was essentially dieing. The "Libertarian" cause hurts the "Republican" cause (and vice versa). Yeah, I wish that wasn't the case, but I really don't see any way to change it.

Morality is relative. Society as a whole makes determination on what is moral and immoral. Morality in itself is based on religious doctrine. Laws are what society dictates. In some states its legal to have sexual relations with a 16 year old with her consent. If you did what you be within the moral immoral argument? Even if it was legal? I can have an opinion that it should be illegal to wear parachute pants on Tuesdays. I am entiteled to that opinion. It doesn't mean it should be against the law, because the next guy may see no problem with it. I may be clouding the issue, I just feel that there is a reason for separation of church and state. The Catholic church proved how dangerous that can be during the middle ages. Allowing the religious right to mandate policy and legislation should not be what we encourage. I think they do more harm to the Republican party than the Libertarians do.

If we look at what the LP stands for; personal freedoms and liberties, TRUE small government, etc. then the way we "fix it" is we "the people" vote for the best candidate and not the best party. There is nothing in the Constitution that says we have to have a government chosen from the Republicans or Democrats. Now I am not trying to convince everyone to become Libertarians. I am only asking why as a country we need to choose the lesser of two evils like someone said earlier. If we truly believe in smaller government, and freedom to live our lives in a way that is respectful of others, and that the government needs to be thrifty with our tax dollars why would we not consider another party? Obviously these two have been doing poorly and they BOTH have had plenty of time to get it right. BTW here is a link for those of you unfamiliar with the LP.

Platform | Libertarian Party

 

[Texan2]

+1

I see a lot of things as right and wrong, and a lot of things as not my business. Just because I think abortion should be illegal, does not mean I'm pushing my religion on you. We all have morality.

Clockwork, correct me if I'm wrong my history could be a little fuzzy, the three party system only occured because one party was essentially dieing. The "Libertarian" cause hurts the "Republican" cause (and vice versa). Yeah, I wish that wasn't the case, but I really don't see any way to change it.

If Libertarians hurt the Rebublicans enough, one of two things will happen, Repubs will start doing things correctly or the Liberatarians will become a more dominant party. Time for the conservative movement to take their medicine. It may have to get worse before it gets better.