Better off to carry with none in the chamber than not at all?

[specter77]

Concerning the "Israeli carry method", I trained to use said method back in the 80's. I was a weapons guard for off base shipments while in the Marines and the Regulations called for loaded magazine inserted empty chamber for the M1911A1. I had my own 1911 so I practiced drawing and racking the slide. In a perfect world I could perform the drill very quickly however, if my hand got sweaty all bets were off. Since getting my first CHL in Al I have always carried every handgun with a round in the chamber.

My personal opinion is that carrying with an empty chamber is better than nothing as the presents of a firearm might defuse a situation and the individual might get a round chambered easily. That said, the individual is best off practicing, a lot.

Semper Fi

Mike

 

[London]

Say you have a friend/family member though, that just will not carry with one in the chamber, overall, generally speaking, all things being equal, are they better off not carrying at all or carrying with no round in the chamber and training to chamber a round as needed?

The premise is set up upon a false dichotomy. There is no need for there to be an either/or situation in this instance. Anyone who insists these are the only two options is frankly being a jackass. I would try reasoning with the person first; if he is immune to it then I'd probably just write him off as a potential victim of his own stupidity.

Fortunately most people are not that thick-headed, especially ones who respect you.

 

[picker]

There is a lot of grey in this subject, believe it or not I can see how some folks would be safer carrying unchambered and some not carrying at all.
I think we are assuming the folks we are deciding who should carry chambered and unchambered are all agile and know their weapon well ?

I will keep my story short here so you don't get bored, Thanksgiving day was here company was coming and the house was smelling like baked turkey and home made pie.
Company arrives and everyone is gun friendly, and there are a couple ladies that just completed their CHL course and had their license, one of these ladies was pretty feeble used a walker and trembled[Yup just got her CHL] and explained to me she has not shot her gun yet seems like she rented one at the CHL class.
The other pulls out a Ruger 38 super and starts waving it around and waved it right at my head[I know should have stopped the party but] I said whoa !!! Lady is that thing loaded, well yes it is she replied as she handed it to me .
These are friends of friends and guests so Im trying hard to be civil[a big mistake I soon found out]
I said lady I don't like an unloaded gun pointed at my head much less a loaded one, I asked her to take it out to her vehicle[we gonnna soot in the house]
So after visiting awhile and before we sat down for turkey everyone wanted to shoot some I had the ole 50 yd. target sat up ready to go and I had just bought a 12x15 inch piece of leather from Midway to lay on top of my Brand new Jeep to use as a rest.
It was obvious these Ladies didn't have a clue about gun safety and complained the distance was too far[and truthfully it was] for them, but I was watching them close making sure they knew to always keep their weapon pointed in a safe direction and making sure everyone else was behind them and truthfully their were some seasoned shooters in the group and since these Ladies had just passed the CHL class I wrongly assumed they were too.
About that time I hear this Bang/Blam!! sound Im standing behind this lady and she just shot a Damn hole in the hood of my @#$#%$%# Damn Brand new 4 door 4 wheel drive Jeep sahara.............Needless to say this partys over, now should this Lady carry chambered ?
Remember she is Licensed. This makes it plain to me not everyone should not only not carry chambered but also not everyone who is CHL should even be around a gun.PERIOD!!!
Rant over...................Best /joe, I hope everyone had a better Thanksgiving than I needless to say I was not in a festive mood.

 

[itchin]

Shooting handguns at 50 yards from your jeep with old trembling ladies on walkers ?

 

[Jeffrey]

Have him carry a revolver with an empty hole under the hammer?

 

[picker]

Shooting handguns at 50 yards from your jeep with old trembling ladies on walkers ?

No the old trembling one didn't shoot after the hood incident, as a matter of fact no one shot or will use the hood of my Jeep except yours truly. I don't seem to have a problem using a vehicle hood to put a 1000 rounds down range, but I take full responsibility for my very poor judgement I just assumed to get a CHL, you had to be sane/sober and have some gun handling ability, evidently not, so much for the CHL BS.
Best/joe
Best/joe

 

[Whisky]

There is a lot of grey in this subject, believe it or not I can see how some folks would be safer carrying unchambered and some not carrying at all.
I think we are assuming the folks we are deciding who should carry chambered and unchambered are all agile and know their weapon well ?

I will keep my story short here so you don't get bored, Thanksgiving day was here company was coming and the house was smelling like baked turkey and home made pie.
Company arrives and everyone is gun friendly, and there are a couple ladies that just completed their CHL course and had their license, one of these ladies was pretty feeble used a walker and trembled[Yup just got her CHL] and explained to me she has not shot her gun yet seems like she rented one at the CHL class.
The other pulls out a Ruger 38 super and starts waving it around and waved it right at my head[I know should have stopped the party but] I said whoa !!! Lady is that thing loaded, well yes it is she replied as she handed it to me .
These are friends of friends and guests so Im trying hard to be civil[a big mistake I soon found out]
I said lady I don't like an unloaded gun pointed at my head much less a loaded one, I asked her to take it out to her vehicle[we gonnna soot in the house]
So after visiting awhile and before we sat down for turkey everyone wanted to shoot some I had the ole 50 yd. target sat up ready to go and I had just bought a 12x15 inch piece of leather from Midway to lay on top of my Brand new Jeep to use as a rest.
It was obvious these Ladies didn't have a clue about gun safety and complained the distance was too far[and truthfully it was] for them, but I was watching them close making sure they knew to always keep their weapon pointed in a safe direction and making sure everyone else was behind them and truthfully their were some seasoned shooters in the group and since these Ladies had just passed the CHL class I wrongly assumed they were too.
About that time I hear this Bang/Blam!! sound Im standing behind this lady and she just shot a Damn hole in the hood of my @#$#%$%# Damn Brand new 4 door 4 wheel drive Jeep sahara.............Needless to say this partys over, now should this Lady carry chambered ?
Remember she is Licensed. This makes it plain to me not everyone should not only not carry chambered but also not everyone who is CHL should even be around a gun.PERIOD!!!
Rant over...................Best /joe, I hope everyone had a better Thanksgiving than I needless to say I was not in a festive mood.

I'm trying to figure out "who", in your story, is the moron.....

 

[picker]

I suspect it was me, I invited some shooters who brought them, so ultimately I set the scene.
I still just don't see how in the hell they could pass a CHL test, and just so we all understand each other, the farther the target the higher the muzzle.
Best/joe

 

[picker]

One point here so I don't look to stupid is the lady that did shoot was spry looked to be in her early sixties, I think about this and the only way you could shoot the hood of that Jeep is # 1 intentionally[which she did not, just making a point] or she was afraid of the gun and as she squeezed closed her eyes and allowed the muzzle to drop, thinking about this I now realize she probably had too much gun 38 Super and I would have never allowed her on the property armed but...............She has a CHL.
Best/joe

 

[breakingcontact]

Shooting handguns at 50 yards from your jeep with old trembling ladies on walkers ?

How could that go wrong!?

 

[picker]

How could that go wrong!?

Lets save the Drama for your mama, both of yall are trying to troll.
The trembling Lady in a walker did not shoot we never got that far I don't think she could have stood at a jeep anyway, the Lady that did shoot didn't have any problems except her gun handling skills.
Now lets get on topic again I sure the OP will appreciate it and my answer is definetly no not everyone should carry Hot.
Best/joe

 

[TheDan]

I'm with TXI. If you're not comfortable carrying a loaded chamber, then you're not mentally prepared to really use the gun. Is it better than not carrying at all? Maybe... Guns do make nice fashion accessories

 

[breakingcontact]

I appreciate the input. Had a conversation with this person today. Trying to play the long ball and help them get to a better form of carry with practice and time.

 

[Renegade]

20 years ago most did not carry at all. So chamber empty is a huge improvement in readiness.

Each person makes their own choice of how ready they want to be. There is no final choice. Just varying degrees of readiness. Handgun carry (chamber empty or full) is mid-level and better than car carry or no carry. Handgun + Assault Rifle is much preferred. You would be shocked what you can fit in a backpack or computer case while strolling the mall.

 

[ROGER4314]

It's a personal preference. If they are comfortable with that mode of carry, then have at it!

Most of the time, I carry a .380 and some would say that I was hopelessly under gunned. I've been shot and I'm comfortable that I could cause enough distress with that .380 to stop a conflict. The only other option is not to carry. I will not carry 5 pounds of gear every day.

I have shoulder holsters for more powerful pistols that I could use if I knew trouble was impending.

MY motto is "Carry small but carry always!" Do what makes you comfortable. Allow others to do the same.

Flash

 

[stemoo01]

I appreciate the input. Had a conversation with this person today. Trying to play the long ball and help them get to a better form of carry with practice and time.

Good plan.

To my mind theirs a big difference between how a regular shooter and a non-shooter should approach carry. For someone who (honestly) isn't going to train at all then something very simple that works at close range without any fiddling is probably the way to go ie. handbag revolver. Sure try to take them to the range to ensure they are safe (minimising jeep incidents) & understand their level of accuracy, but keep it simple. These people have a right to carry, we should help them do that as safely as possible, acknowledging the amount of training they will put in is important to help them effectively.

I shoot once or twice a week, when I started to carry I did so with cocked & locked but with an empty chamber, why? Well whilst I knew the safety would be pretty difficult to knock off and that the holster would even then keep the trigger covered I had no real world experience to confirm that. After a while of carrying I was confident that both the safety and holster were good to go. At this point the delay of racking overcame the concern of carrying condition one & I switched to having one in the chamber.

As concern around printing reduces I may later move towards something a little larger with more rounds. Again this is simply a balance of concerns.

I've never been a person to follow the advice of others blindly. I'll listen and then evaluate it for myself. One of my shooting friends really understands this & does a very much appreciated job of dropping ideas that make me question my current carry & evaluate alternatives. Allowing me the space to explore carry works, barking 'you must do x/y/z' doesn't

Overall I wouldn't get hung up on how someone carries, but it's in all our interests to help. Be that by taking a non-trainer to the range or talking (not telling) around chambered vs empty, safety vs striker, 380 vs 9mm

 

[Younggun]

I believe Picker raises a good point. The CHL isn't really insuring much so the program should probably be done away with as a requirement to carry, but kept for those who travel, and other benefits.

As to the OP question. I'm not sure I agree with those who say someone who carries empty chamber doesn't have the mindset to defend themselves. Sure it could apply to some, but as a blanket statement I feel it's inaccurate.

I've kept a gun in the console with an empty chamber for the simple fact I didn't have a good way to secure it. Better odds that the mechanical safeties maybe defeated bumping in and out down the dirt road than me actually needing it for defense. Empty chamber removed that risk while still leaving me an option.

Loaded chamber>empty chamber>nothing.

Don't forget your knife. Fixed>auto>manual folder>nothing.

 

[Younggun]

I gotta ask ha picker, is she paying for the damages?

 

[picker]

I gotta ask ha picker, is she paying for the damages?

She has offered to pay for the repair yes, and I am probably just going to pay for it myself, Im figuring 2-3 hundred and let it go, my dumb ass set the scene, but an old friend and hunting buddy of mine brought them and kinda kept me up to speed about their CHL class ect.
And the Lady was startled and apologetic, Im just glad someone did not get hurt.
I take blame for the mishap and I don't take it lightly.
I foolishly thought passing a CHL course required skill, I know mine damn sure did, anyway thanks for the concern men after many years of shooting and hunting this is the first and last time I have been involved in a shooting accident.
Best/joe

 

[WCDUB]

Absolutely.
I carry in condition 3 (mag in, us chambered) and can rack the slide as I remove it from my CHL holster.

It's personal preference,but surely carrying
unchambered is better than not carrying.