Be offensive about your "defense"

[SIG_Fiend]

Words of wisdom. This is something I believe in firmly, developing an offensive mindset. If someone is trying to kill you, you need to be more proactive than them and not get stuck thinking "defensively". Sometimes the situation may warrant taking the fight to the bad guy.

Oh yeah, and as much as I like .45acp, here's yet another mythbuster. The officer took a .45acp 230gr FMJ to the FACE and he's still with us. Don't count on anything except your own resolve to get you through.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArDRg5SkuT0[/video]

 

[Clockwork]

Impressive, but can he take one in the face from one of these?

 

[Dcav]

Talk about a will to live!

 

[Texas42]

wow. Guy is lucky to be alive. Lucky to wear a vest, lucky that round through his mouth didn't send teeth into his brain.

Shot the bad guy 7 times (out of 12?) with a hole in his face, on the ground, while being shot at.

Shoot.

 

[Clockwork]

Shot the bad guy 7 times (out of 12?) with a hole in his face, on the ground, while being shot at. LIKE A BOSS

Fixed.

 

[Texas42]

Fixed.

+1

 

[jocat54]

That is one bad ass cop---good for him.

 

[M. Sage]

I can't find fault with how he ended the fight, either.

 

[jr urbina]

That man is hardcore.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I can't find fault with how he ended the fight, either.

Unfortunately, you just know there are plenty of ignorant people that could find "fault" with it because they just don't "get it". Some people don't give you a choice. You know, I think I remember reading case history that there was precedence for intentionally killing an attacker if you are wounded and afraid of them mortally harming you if you pass out. Maybe someone that knows what I'm talking about could chime in and/or correct me if I'm wrong. Reaching over and putting 3 shots into the guys face at point blank range, while both of you are on the ground is a healthy serving of reality waffles. Sometimes that's what it takes. The question we should all ask ourselves is: Are we willing to go that far or farther, and will we train to that so we can do it instinctively?

 

[chromedomepinoyboy]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[M. Sage]

Unfortunately, you just know there are plenty of ignorant people that could find "fault" with it because they just don't "get it". Some people don't give you a choice. You know, I think I remember reading case history that there was precedence for intentionally killing an attacker if you are wounded and afraid of them mortally harming you if you pass out. Maybe someone that knows what I'm talking about could chime in and/or correct me if I'm wrong. Reaching over and putting 3 shots into the guys face at point blank range, while both of you are on the ground is a healthy serving of reality waffles. Sometimes that's what it takes. The question we should all ask ourselves is: Are we willing to go that far or farther, and will we train to that so we can do it instinctively?

I'd have to say that technically what he did might have actually been illegal. It sounded like the fight might have been over at that point. However....

If I'm laying on the ground, bleeding out of a bunch of holes that some asshole just put through me and I get the chance to ensure he's going to die with me? Taking it.

Morally, as far as I'm concerned if someone tries to kill you, their life is yours. No, I'm not big on turning the other cheek, LOL.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Unfortunately, you just know there are plenty of ignorant people that could find "fault" with it because they just don't "get it". Some people don't give you a choice. You know, I think I remember reading case history that there was precedence for intentionally killing an attacker if you are wounded and afraid of them mortally harming you if you pass out. Maybe someone that knows what I'm talking about could chime in and/or correct me if I'm wrong. Reaching over and putting 3 shots into the guys face at point blank range, while both of you are on the ground is a healthy serving of reality waffles. Sometimes that's what it takes. The question we should all ask ourselves is: Are we willing to go that far or farther, and will we train to that so we can do it instinctively?

I'd have to say that technically what he did might have actually been illegal. It sounded like the fight might have been over at that point. However....

If I'm laying on the ground, bleeding out of a bunch of holes that some asshole just put through me and I get the chance to ensure he's going to die with me? Taking it.

Morally, as far as I'm concerned if someone tries to kill you, their life is yours. No, I'm not big on turning the other cheek, LOL.

Not finding fault with what either of you said, but I do find it amazing that we law abiding gun owners have grown so accustomed to bad laws that make us second guess what we might have to do to some POS in a fight for our life.
That officer did what needed to be done to end that fight.
I can find no sympathy whatsoever for poor little Joel Abner, and I seriously hope he suffered terribly before the lights went out for good for him.

That was an amazing video to watch, Sig_Fiend. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

[Mikewood]

The time interval is the key here.
It takes 5 seconds start to finish with the officer firing 14 rounds. Even at 30 seconds it's so dynamic a fight and the suspect breaking and engaging several times I think its a good shoot.

 

[JADB]

That was an amazing video to watch, Sig_Fiend. Thank you for sharing it with us.

+1

 

[cuate]

Getting by the what if's and on to reality, if I had to use deadly force I believe I would choose either my 1911 with my own jacketed hollow point handloads or a 9mm I own which will hold 17 rounds and one in the pipe of my likewise 9mm jacketed hollowpoints....To put my imaginary bad guys down for the count whom are really aluminum cans and rocks, and paper targets I have a brand new Pietta, Italian made 1858 New Army revolver with a 5 holer .45LC cylinder installed and shoots about 6" high !!!! Or my 1892 Winchester lever action in .45LC caliber....Out here in rural Comanche County I don't see many real Zombies but I keep both eyes open, haha....

 

[Jon Payne]

I did take note the officer wanted to get to his feet to make the perfect shot. Then he realized he couldn't! His mindset prevailed and his will to win saved his life.

 

[Rum Runner]

Amazing story. Thanks for sharing Sig!

As to whether he should have finished him like that? Fact #1 The officer already knew he had been shot twice. Fact #2 The shoplifter wanted the officer dead and had already re-engaged to ensure it. If the officer lost lost consciousness and the shoplifter had been able to finish the officer, he would have. So, I think it is a slam dunk that the officer had to make sure the fight was over.

I think there are a lot of things to take away from this video, I may watch it again and make a list later.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

The way he described it I didn't feel like there's anything to second guess. Someone engages you to kill you then they've given up their right to live.

I'd be fine with him taking an aimed shot at the back of that guy's head as he was walking off.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Amazing story. Thanks for sharing Sig!

As to whether he should have finished him like that? Fact #1 The officer already knew he had been shot twice. Fact #2 The shoplifter wanted the officer dead and had already re-engaged to ensure it. If the officer lost lost consciousness and the shoplifter had been able to finish the officer, he would have. So, I think it is a slam dunk that the officer had to make sure the fight was over.

I think there are a lot of things to take away from this video, I may watch it again and make a list later.

The way he described it I didn't feel like there's anything to second guess. Someone engages you to kill you then they've given up their right to live.

I'd be fine with him taking an aimed shot at the back of that guy's head as he was walking off.

Agreed! Someone shoots at a cop, I think that should be considered permission to kill them in the worst possible way imaginable! And kill them is the only option available!
I admit, I will be a bit overreactive and especially callous on this issue.