ATF-41P Final Rule

[Phoneguy]

As I read it...
The transferee no longer needs a CLEO signature.
A single transferee or all trustees of a Trust must notify their CLEO of the NFA transaction by giving their CLEO a copy of all paperwork submitted to the ATF.

We've won nothing. We've lost the ability to keep the CLEOs from creating a database. They'll have knowledge of the Trusts, who's in the Trust, and what items are on it.

 

[Mreed911]

As I read it...
The transferee no longer needs a CLEO signature.
A single transferee or all trustees of a Trust must notify their CLEO of the NFA transaction by giving their CLEO a copy of all paperwork submitted to the ATF.

No, one specific form, not all paperwork.

We've won nothing. We've lost the ability to keep the CLEOs from creating a database. They'll have knowledge of the Trusts, who's in the Trust, and what items are on it.

Wrong. Take off the tinfoil.

And, if your trust requires having a list of everything in it attached, you've done it wrong, IMO.

 

[Phoneguy]

You are correct with the single notification as prescribed on page 224, "copy 2".
And I said nothing of having everything on your Trust attached.
And it's not a tinfoil hat. I once worked within the DoJ. My concerns are legitimate.

 

[Mreed911]

And I said nothing of having everything on your Trust attached.

You said:

They'll have knowledge of the Trusts, who's in the Trust, and what items are on it.

They'll only have a record of what's acquired six months from now and forward, and there are limits on how long they can keep that data (and penalties and remedies for over-keeping).

 

[Phoneguy]

What page are the limits and penalties on?

 

[Mreed911]

What page are the limits and penalties on?

I assume you're asking because you no no such limits exist?

Read the document.

 

[Phoneguy]

If you answer a question with a question but you know the answer, that makes you a scoundrel.

 

[grumper]

What page are the limits and penalties on?

The penalty is they don't approve your form and they refund your $200.

If you go ahead and build or take possession of an unregistered NFA device it's up to 10yrs in FPMITA prison and $250,000.

 

[Younggun]

I don't see it as a win since it helps 40% and hurts 60%.

That's going off of the number of trusts and 40% of individuals being based on information posted earlier in this thread and unverified.

But now consider that trusts generally have a least 2 names on them. Mine has 3. But let's use 2 per trust so nobody cries foul.


Now we have double the number of people effected who use trusts vs individual. For ever 40 people this helps, it hurts 120 people. I'd bet those 3 to 1 numbers are pretty conservative.

I'm having difficulty finding a true "win" in this. Congrats to those who have difficulty with signatures, but our state reps could have fixed that issue at the state level.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Younggun]

The penalty is they don't approve your form and they refund your $200.

If you go ahead and build or take possession of an unregistered NFA device it's up to 10yrs in FPMITA prison and $250,000.

He was referencing how long CLEO could save his paperwork.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Renegade]

I'm having difficulty finding a true "win" in this. Congrats to those who have difficulty with signatures, but our state reps could have fixed that issue at the state level.

Removing CLEO for individuals is a win, everything else is a loss.

 

[Younggun]

Unless you can walk in to your LGS and buy a suppressor and walk out 10 minutes later with it, you haven't won much. You've only had your collar adjusted.

And 3 other dogs had theirs tightened.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Mreed911]

What page are the limits and penalties on?

I assume you're asking because you no no such limits exist?

Read the document.

If you answer a question with a question but you know the answer, that makes you a scoundrel.

The penalty is they don't approve your form and they refund your $200.

If you go ahead and build or take possession of an unregistered NFA device it's up to 10yrs in FPMITA prison and $250,000.

Nope, going back, I read him wrong. He's asking about limits/penalties for CLEO's keeping information sent to them. I'll have to look that up, but I know I found it for my C&R license notification.

 

[Younggun]

Now an individual is happy, but if I don't jump through and bunch of extra hoops on my next purchase and my wife uses the new SBR to defend the house while I'm away she's a felon for illegal possession of an NFA item.

WIN!


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[RACER X]

I would wager there are alot more family trusts then a person all by themselves

And what are my kids to do, get registered by the govt at their ages already, since they are on the trust

sent from the batcloset in the batcave on the batphone

 

[Mreed911]

Now an individual is happy, but if I don't jump through and bunch of extra hoops on my next purchase and my wife uses the new SBR to defend the house while I'm away she's a felon for illegal possession of an NFA item.

In any case, your wife is always better off with every inch you can give her. SBR's don't leave impressions. That's why we have a 26" AR around here somewhere...

 

[Younggun]

In any case, your wife is always better off with every inch you can give her. SBR's don't leave impressions. That's why we have a 26" AR around here somewhere...

You must have a much larger house than me.


And our self defense plans revolve more around shot placement than impressions.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[Tejano Scott]

Welcome back YG with an NFA vendetta. I love it!!!

 

[Mreed911]

You must have a much larger house than me.

And our self defense plans revolve more around shot placement than impressions.

Sorry, it was another bad "inches matter" joke.

 

[Phoneguy]

CLEOs can keep that page 2 as long as they like.
Page 137 and pages 139-140: "The CLEOs will have the discretion and flexibility to review, manage, and maintain this information in the manner that they believe is most appropriate to the public safety concerns in their respective jurisdictions."

Gotta love the "public safety concerns" when it comes up and confronts the 2nd Amendment.