Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

[A1Oni]

Paul Howe has made a good video on this shitshow

 

[deemus]

My biggest beef is with them restraining parents who were willing to make the assault.

generally you want the cops to do their job. Since like, training.

 

[Rhino]

generally you want the cops to do their job. Since like, training.

Yeah, but if they aren't willing to go in, they shouldn't have held them back.

 

[Renegade]

The biggest lesson to be learned from the DOJ report is that unless your agency is large enough, well funded enough, and sees complex situations often enough, there but for the grace of God goes thee.

This is the expected bureaucratic lesson. And the proposed solution is "we can fix this, if we throw more money at it".

No we can't.

This, like Columbine, like Peterson/Parkland, was straight up cowardice. Shooter fired from the room, and they high-tailed it down the hallway faster than Usain Bolt. The problem, is some folks are just not cut out for dangerous jobs. A cop has to go into that room. A firefighter has to go into that house. That is the job.


Too many folks are taking the job, without the mindset that may have to take action that will get them killed. Howe covers this in the video above, as usual he is always spot on.

 

[toddnjoyce]

This is the expected bureaucratic lesson. And the proposed solution is "we can fix this, if we throw more money at it"..

Not sure if we’re on the same track here. From my perspective, until an agency is able it’s LEOs prove themselves in real-world operations the public should have no expectation of performance by that agency in general, nor in individual officers, specifically.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of agencies, be it local, state, or federal, don’t have a way to do that, nor is there a way to train to it, so the natural outcome is overconfidence in capability that, when actually tested, results in failure. That’s what I mean by agencies being subject to “there but for the grace of God…”.

 

[seeker_two]

Yeah, but if they aren't willing to go in, they shouldn't have held them back.

I'm still surprised that some of the parents didn't arm up and proceed anyway....and take care of any resistance along the way.

 

[easy rider]

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would believe that many of these school shootings were contrived. Too many gutless LEO's around the U.S. to reason with.

 

[deemus]

I'm still surprised that some of the parents didn't arm up and proceed anyway....and take care of any resistance along the way.

I would guess the possibility of getting shot came into play.

 

[Renegade]

My biggest beef is with them restraining parents who were willing to make the assault.

How did they know an assault was needed?

By the time parents showed up, no shots were being fired so from their perspective it was over. Until BORTAC fired a few shots an hr later and it was over.

 

[benenglish]

How did they know an assault was needed?

By the time parents showed up, no shots were being fired so from their perspective it was over. Until BORTAC fired a few shots an hr later and it was over.

They knew or should have known. If shots had been fired within the last hour, possibly more, there's a chance someone is inside, bleeding out, and their life could be saved by immediately securing the scene and getting medical assistance to those who needed it.

Not assaulting is just saying "I don't care if someone may be bleeding to death in there. I'm not risking my neck to find out.'

I have a problem with that attitude.

 

[Renegade]

They knew or should have known. If shots had been fired within the last hour, possibly more, there's a chance someone is inside, bleeding out, and their life could be saved by immediately securing the scene and getting medical assistance to those who needed it.

Not assaulting is just saying "I don't care if someone may be bleeding to death in there. I'm not risking my neck to find out.'

I have a problem with that attitude.

We are talking about parents doing an assault - "restraining parents who were willing to make the assault."

 

[General Zod]

They knew or should have known. If shots had been fired within the last hour, possibly more, there's a chance someone is inside, bleeding out, and their life could be saved by immediately securing the scene and getting medical assistance to those who needed it.

Not assaulting is just saying "I don't care if someone may be bleeding to death in there. I'm not risking my neck to find out.'

I have a problem with that attitude.

I believe there should be legal repercussions for armed police allowing victims to be murdered or bleed out and die. Unfortunately, SCOTUS ruled that the police don't actually have an obligation to protect the public...but once they've responded to an active situation, lack of action directly results in loss of life and that is on them. And when department leadership is on site mandating that lack of action, that 'leader' damn well should face real penalties.

 

[seeker_two]

I would guess the possibility of getting shot came into play.

Doubtful.....the cops seemed so hesitant to get shot that they'd likely run away from angry, armed parents.....


....and if they didn't.....

 

[benenglish]

We are talking about parents doing an assault.

The principle still holds. A motivated parent with a baseball bat might have saved lives. The ones that showed up knew something needed to be done right now yet on-scene LEOs were determined to make sure no one got the chance. The instinct of the parents was more competent than the training and experience of those LEOs.

 

[General Zod]

The principle still holds. A motivated parent with a baseball bat might have saved lives. The ones that showed up knew something needed to be done right now yet on-scene LEOs were determined to make sure no one got the chance. The instinct of the parents was more competent than the training and experience of those LEOs.

Should actively preventing aid not be considered aiding and abetting? Seriously. At least obstruction - even if they're LEO's and the idiot chief.

 

[Renegade]

The principle still holds. A motivated parent with a baseball bat might have saved lives.

I was not asking him about principle but mindset - "How did they know an assault was needed?"

All indications when parents arrived were it was over. Kids were being reunited with the parents, Police were non-chalant, setting up crime scene perimeter, etc. There were no indications from parents perspective it was still in progress till shots rang out later.

 

[robertc1024]

Nothing new in that report. They could have looked in this thread and saved a lot of time.

 

[easy rider]

I would guess the possibility of getting shot came into play.

I don't know, and maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine just standing by while children are being slaughtered.

 

[popper]

Just a legal study of the incident. Fed has NO authority to prosecute anybody involved - per DOJ. I worked with security (Olympics/schools/courts/TSA/etc), the actual problem, as TSA discovered - NO properly equipped and armed personnel on sight. I asked DISD what would happen if a person got through with a gun. Shrug.
and IF they get through, first to get taken out is the armed LE!
Don't worry, schools will get lazy and forget about it soon, after they spend all the $$.

 

[benenglish]

I was not asking him about principle but mindset - "How did they know an assault was needed?"

Apparently they were running on instinct.

All indications when parents arrived were it was over.

If that were the case, no parents would have been restrained from entering by LEOs. That happened, didn't it?