A Pondering Question..................

[Axxe55]

Next you will want to discuss predestination doctrine.

Can man really have free will if he is predestined.

I like to keep my philosophical discussions much lighter. Even that one is too deep for me!

The next one is going to be which came first, the chicken or the egg!

 

[candcallen]

The rooster

 

[Axxe55]

High on life, or something.

Beam and Seven just started!

 

[Axxe55]

The rooster

Ahhh....you have seen this question before!

 

[cycleguy2300]

Here's a question to ponder on.

Is it better to do the right thing, for the wrong reasons, or to do the wrong thing, for the right reasons?

Seems like a fairly simple question, and for what many might consider a fairly simple answer. But IMO, I think it's much more complex than a simple answer, and could involve much deeper thoughts into how, or why we might answer that question. Maybe it all depends upon the unique circumstances of a given situation.

Thoughts?

Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy...

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[Axxe55]

Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy...

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Dammit! Now I have to go and find my dictionary!

 

[cycleguy2300]

I would come down and say only right things done for the right reasons is good.
Both the questioned examples are errors, and therefore wrong.

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[candcallen]

Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy...

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Hay google...

 

[seeker_two]

Determined by the circumstances of the situation at the time.

If that's your basis, then you're starting on a shaky moral foundation. Morally right has to be right no matter the situation....else it's not morally right. Tha why it is sometimes right to kill....but it's never right to murder.

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[msharley]

I would come down and say only right things done for the right reasons is good.
Both the questioned examples are errors, and therefore wrong.

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17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[SARGE67]

Next you will want to discuss predestination doctrine.

Can man really have free will if he is predestined.

If the predestination is the end result, then all the free will choices he made wouldn't make any difference it seems.

 

[Axxe55]

If that's your basis, then you're starting on a shaky moral foundation. Morally right has to be right no matter the situation....else it's not morally right. Tha why it is sometimes right to kill....but it's never right to murder.

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But different people from different backgrounds and influences may have different moral foundations.

Here's one to ponder on. Purely a hypothetical because it's impossible.

IF you had the opportunity to go back in time, and kill Hitler before he came to power in Germany, being the only person knowing the future, and what Hitler would do, but it would be out-right murder, and you would be prosecuted for murdering Hitler, would you kill him or not?

 

[msharley]

But different people from different backgrounds and influences may have different moral foundations.

Here's one to ponder on. Purely a hypothetical because it's impossible.

IF you had the opportunity to go back in time, and kill Hitler before he came to power in Germany, being the only person knowing the future, and what Hitler would do, but it would be out-right murder, and you would be prosecuted for murdering Hitler, would you kill him or not?

Hey Axe,

Go down that rabbit hole?


Mayhaps most of Europe (those not in the GULAG) would be speaking Russian??

Yikes! (Hitler murdered 6 million. Stalin...at least 20 million! Possibly 50 millions??)

As to your original question...

Do GOOD for GOOD reasons..

Not out of "rote/blind obedience".

Even slaves work when whipped....

Later, Mark

 

[Axxe55]

Hey Axe,

Go down that rabbit hole?


Mayhaps most of Europe (those not in the GULAG) would be speaking Russian??

Yikes! (Hitler murdered 6 million. Stalin...at least 20 million! Possibly 50 millions??)

As to your original question...

Do GOOD for GOOD reasons..

Not out of "rote/blind obedience".

Even slaves work when whipped....

Later, Mark

That is very interesting.

I do agree with, do good things, for good reasons. I think most people with a moral compass would agree. That is why I liked @toddnjoyce's answer to the thread.

Let's take my hypothetical scenario a step further. If you could go back in time, kill Hitler and Stalin, would you do it?

 

[candcallen]

The question is if you could go back to their births and strangle them with their cords would you?

 

[msharley]

That is very interesting.

I do agree with, do good things, for good reasons. I think most people with a moral compass would agree. That is why I liked @toddnjoyce's answer to the thread.

Let's take my hypothetical scenario a step further. If you could go back in time, kill Hitler and Stalin, would you do it?

Hey Axe,

Never gave it much thought??

I'm thinkin' (ooooh that always hurtz my fool haid)....if someone/anyone would go back to murder Hitler/Stalin/Mao .... as much as we think that might be a "good thing"?

Something/someone WORSE could well be "installed".....

I think? We all have enough on our own "plates".....

Brother Paul had this to say in his epistle to the Philippians...


So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;


Most days? We make choices that affect others...sometimes adversely.......(oh, I could not be bothered to look at my tires before speeding down the highway....) others? almost by "compulsion" doing something to help a person...with no thought of reward.

A friend of mine Prays before every activity. (he was on Mission Fields a couple times)...

We have all seen the bumper sticker: WWJD?

Nice sentiment...totally irrelevant.

At Christ's time, when He Prayed....part of His Prayer? ".............THY WILL be DONE...."

What would Christ have me do? That. Is the question.

Later, Mark

 

[Axxe55]

Hey Axe,

Never gave it much thought??

I'm thinkin' (ooooh that always hurtz my fool haid)....if someone/anyone would go back to murder Hitler/Stalin/Mao .... as much as we think that might be a "good thing"?

Something/someone WORSE could well be "installed".....

I think? We all have enough on our own "plates".....

Brother Paul had this to say in his epistle to the Philippians...


So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;


Most days? We make choices that affect others...sometimes adversely.......(oh, I could not be bothered to look at my tires before speeding down the highway....) others? almost by "compulsion" doing something to help a person...with no thought of reward.

A friend of mine Prays before every activity. (he was on Mission Fields a couple times)...

We have all seen the bumper sticker: WWJD?

Nice sentiment...totally irrelevant.

At Christ's time, when He Prayed....part of His Prayer? ".............THY WILL be DONE...."

What would Christ have me do? That. Is the question.

Later, Mark

And there lays the complexity of the scenario, and the paradox as some might call it.

Killing Hitler, Stalin and Mao, might save lives, but on the other hand, maybe it would given rise and opportunity to someone even more evil in their place.

I do like your thoughts on this, and they are very close to mine as well.

 

[candcallen]

Killing one person wont erase history. Those people were a product of the situation and took advantage of the situation. There were dozens of men just like them in their inner circles, any one of which would have taken advantage of the situation, that's what evil does.

Killing Hitler or learning from the situation, which is the greatest good that we can do today. You would have a full time job killing evil mass murderers in the first 3/4 of the 20th century.

Erasing history only doom repetition.

 

[Whistler]

Why do you have to kill them? Knowing their history couldn't you just change a couple seminal moments?

Predestined is a dodge answer (true or not).

 

[Axxe55]

Why do you have to kill them? Knowing their history couldn't you just change a couple seminal moments?

Predestined is a dodge answer (true or not).

That is an interesting perspective. Could you expand on that thought?