I'm considering getting a 45 cal handgun soon and was wondering if I would be limited to certain handguns that can shoot the +Ps? I would like to get a 1911, but my budget is keeping me to polymer handguns. I'm leaning towards the M&P...
45 +p ?
- Thread starter ConnRadd
- Start date
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According to the Smith & Wesson manual for the M&P pistol:
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the
pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures
may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety.
Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more
frequent service.
“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that
it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated
and could be DANGEROUS.
So apparently, S&W aren't fans of +P ammo.
Just curious, why is it so important that the ammo be "+P"?
Regular .45 ammo has been proven to be quite effective on it's own.
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the
pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures
may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety.
Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more
frequent service.
“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that
it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated
and could be DANGEROUS.
So apparently, S&W aren't fans of +P ammo.
Just curious, why is it so important that the ammo be "+P"?
Regular .45 ammo has been proven to be quite effective on it's own.
Here's the manual for the M&P if you wanna look through it (it's a PDF):
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/M&P_Pistol_Manual_10-30-10.pdf
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/M&P_Pistol_Manual_10-30-10.pdf
Para Ordnance 1911s have fully suppported barrels which can allow for higher pressure ammo. Velocities up to around 1000 fps have been used with the addition of a stronger recoil spring to keep the slide from battering the frame. As said above though, the .45 ACP does a very good job with normal pressures and velocities. You CAN get more velocity out of a beefed up gun but it will eventually take a toll on the gun. Just my two bits.
Also, If you want a good 1911 at a decent price, Remington has their 1911R1 at nearly the same price point as the S&W .45 M&P.
The Remington is slightly higher, but not by much (less than a hundred dollars, depending on where you look)!
I've heard lots of nice things about it, and I'm probably gonna get one myself real shortly here.
The Remington is slightly higher, but not by much (less than a hundred dollars, depending on where you look)!
I've heard lots of nice things about it, and I'm probably gonna get one myself real shortly here.
Thanks for the info. As for wanting the +Ps, I never owned a 45 and want to limit my options on ammo.
Oh boy! Your first .45!
You're gonna love it!
As far as ammo goes, regular 230 grain has been the de-facto standard for that caliber for over a hundred years now. Regular 185 grain will get you more velocity and still be fairly hard hitting, without putting undue wear and tear on your slide/springs/etc.
Don't know about the M&P but I've got a friend that has the same Para that I do (a LTC .45 hi-cap) that developed a load close to 1000 fps for. It works very well but needed a 22 lb. spring (I think) rather than the stock 18 lb. to slow down the slide. But it wasn't consistent with regular velocity ammo ('cause of the stronger spring used with the other high pressure round) and would not feed properly 100 percent of the time with standard pressure rounds. Now, if you were going to shoot only +P ammo it would be OK or you could just change springs when you changed ammo (probably a minor inconvenience). It's a lot of gun with +Ps in it! Kinda' like shooting a fat 10mm!
Nice article. Very informative but there are a few points I am not sure I agree with. A Commander length barreled gun (4" ) can be used with the higher pressure rounds if configured properly.
Angered_Kabar
Well-Known
There is a cartridge which uses .45 ACP chambers and is loaded to much higher pressures. .45 Super. It throws the slug pretty close to 9mm velocities. I think the only polymer pistol that can handle it is HKs offerings.
Guess it depends on your definition of better. Kinda' like how much "more" stopping power is necessary. I think a .45 ACP works just fine. Lot of "unecessary" effort to shoot +P and .45 Super unless maybe it's a hunting situation.
Of course, there is a performance difference between hardball, +P rounds, HP, etc.
Is regular hardball any less deadly than HP or super powered rounds (+P or "Super")?
Absolutely not!
If you decide you do want to use +P in your .45, and keep it to testing for function and a magazine full every now and then, you'll never see or notice the additional wear that +P can heap upon a handgun if used in great quantities.
The M&P .45 is a great handgun. I use Federal and Winchester 230 grain +P JHPs in mine, and on occasion Remington 185 grain +P JHP. All those for limited practice and carry. I use any one of a number of 230 FMJ loads for range work.
The M&P .45 is a great handgun. I use Federal and Winchester 230 grain +P JHPs in mine, and on occasion Remington 185 grain +P JHP. All those for limited practice and carry. I use any one of a number of 230 FMJ loads for range work.
Modifying the gun and running an roided up version of .45 just isn't a good idea for a carry gun. The .45 Super is a cool round, but it's not really viable beyond hunting and having fun at the range, in my opinion.
The M&P will shoot .45 +P just fine if you so choose. There's not a tremendous difference between the two in a .45 ACP (unlike a .38 Special), so I wouldn't concern yourself with it too much. The little power increase comes with a pretty good bark, but in a full size gun it's no biggie.
The M&P will shoot .45 +P just fine if you so choose. There's not a tremendous difference between the two in a .45 ACP (unlike a .38 Special), so I wouldn't concern yourself with it too much. The little power increase comes with a pretty good bark, but in a full size gun it's no biggie.
