1890's iirc.When did hollow points come about? Round nose, fmj, and ball have killed many long before.
Thats mostly referring to this post
Hitting a vital organ is the most important part of the equation.
Everyone uses JHP's now because it does offer an advantage. Not a huge one, but enough of one to justify their adoption. Regardless if it's JHP or FMJ, its a handgun. Not a shotgun, not a rifle. It will poke holes. To have those holes do anything, you either hit the T zone or the heart.
Well then my bad, i took that post to mean that you were saying that JHP's made up for an otherwise ineffective shotThe brain, heart, and spine aren't the only vital organs. Shooting center mass rather than trying for a head shot will give you a better likelihood of a hit on something important no matter what you're shooting with. Trying to hit the spine is a bit much as well - but nowhere in my reply did I say that hitting organs was unimportant.
Well then my bad, i took that post to mean that you were saying that JHP's made up for an otherwise ineffective shot
Winchester Ranger T in .45 opens up to nearly 1" diameter. That is a very large difference in diameter and area compared to ball.It's not all that more destructive. Remember, it's a handgun round. It's a third place looser that's only accepted because it means you can have a smaller gun.
There's plenty of cases of one stop shots with FMJ's and plenty of cases of guys taking dozens of rounds of gold dots, HST's etc. This is because you need to hit a vital organ to have any meaningful chance to stop the threat. A 9mm FMJ that hits the heart is going to do far more than a 9mm hst in the shoulder blade.
You can't simply bring it down to overall damage, its about dealing damage to the few important bits where the damage has any affect. Yes a JHP will do more damage, but it still has to hit a vital organ.
Winchester Ranger T in .45 opens up to nearly 1" diameter. That is a very large difference in diameter and area compared to ball.
And you do not necessarily have to incapacitate someone in terms of physiology. The physical pain and emotional shock will stop most (not all). Larger wound channel means more nerves screaming and greater chance of hitting something important. Probability is improved.
A rifle is not magic. Hydrostatic shock does not affect a large area either.
Its why when people actually know ahead of time that they will need to shoot something, they take a rifle.
Thats part of it, but PCC's and SMG's are all but forgotten now, and nearly everyone is now using short 5.56's or .300'sFor me that reason is longer sight radius and better chance of getting that first hit. YMMV.
Definitely not my intention. Just pointing out that thinking you're going to nail a headshot under stress with someone trying to kill you is unlikely at best. Same with a clean shot through the heart or a shot to the spine. Center mass, and with the ammo that will give you the biggest advantage is a much better strategy.
Depends on the person and the situation. If you're in a close-in fight, a contact shot might be the shot you have. And I've met plenty of people who have the control to make those shots under stress....and did.
"Over penetration" is pretty muchba non-issue in handgun ammo.I wouldn’t feel too bad if i was stuck with 124gr NATO in my carry gun. No it wont expand but unless they're wearing a IIIa vest, it won't stop.
I think people put too much emphasis on over penetration.
Even if the heart is totally kaboomed, the brain and body will work for 5-10 seconds before the curtains fallIf you're that accurate under pressure or in a fight, then you and your faithful Indian companion can do a lot of good out in the West.
Also, humans are pretty resilient, especially when adrenaline is in the mix. Neat holes in the heart and brain don't always stop the show immediately.
<>.30 sc is a dumb round designed to compete against 9mm yet s&w refuses to actually support it so it's already dead.
.327 mag died because all the rounds it's compatible with are all equally rare and expensive
Have you seen this at grabagun? I've considered getting one.<>
Well, that’s what I thought at first too. . . . . .
I even called the 30SC ‘’45GAP, Jr.’’
But now many are taking a second look and seeing advantages.
Folks are finally realizing that CC guns, range guns, & military/home defense guns are all very different.
I realized years, decades back, that the main characteristic of a CC gun is EASE of carry, as it must be present when needed, or it is completely useless.
We’ll see.
For now, we are trying to standardize on 9mmPB.
A .380 in hand is better than a brace of .44 magnums back home in the safe.
<>
Both rounds are dead though.<>
Well, that’s what I thought at first too. . . . . .
I even called the 30SC ‘’45GAP, Jr.’’
But now many are taking a second look and seeing advantages.
Folks are finally realizing that CC guns, range guns, & military/home defense guns are all very different.
I realized years, decades back, that the main characteristic of a CC gun is EASE of carry, as it must be present when needed, or it is completely useless.
We’ll see.
For now, we are trying to standardize on 9mmPB.
A .380 in hand is better than a brace of .44 magnums back home in the safe.
<>