Another black man shot by police, ATL police chief resigns

[Oldbluered]

My desire to serve comes from a sense of duty. No blue flu for me or anybody I know.

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Which is very respectable and appreciated by most of those that don't lump all cops (or people) together. At the same time, most of us wouldn't hold it against the cops to take a break, protest against those tying your hands, show the dismantle/defund people why cops are needed more than they think, or even to think solely of yourselves and family in these (what everyone refers to lately as "crazy times").

Above all thank you for serving my community, even though I'm no longer in Austin and may have been pulled over by you, haha who knows. I don't have a lot but within reason, if you need supplies for work or everyday life and have trouble getting them, let me know. I will assist and with the TGT community extension, I'm sure we can get you covered.

 

[Hoji]

My desire to serve comes from a sense of duty. No blue flu for me or anybody I know.

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I can absolutely respect that, and am glad there are many like you. I still would not be bothered a bit if all of y’all nationwide took two weeks off. Might make your jobs a lot easier when you came back.

 

[Frank59]

If you or I shot a fleeing bad guy after a robbery we would be going to jail. This to me seems uncalled for use of lethal force. He took the tazer away from the cop and ran away and was shot. He didn't have the cops gun. The initial stop was for a minor offense. Yes he did resist arrest but that does not call for lethal force. Just my opinion until more is known.

What if the officer had been hit by the taser a rendered incapacitated? His service weapon could have been taken from him and used against him or some other innocent citizen. There's no doubt from the video the perpetrator discharged the taser in the general vicinity of the officer.

 

[rotor]

What if the officer had been hit by the taser a rendered incapacitated? His service weapon could have been taken from him and used against him or some other innocent citizen. There's no doubt from the video the perpetrator discharged the taser in the general vicinity of the officer.

So many what ifs. What if the cop was hit by the taser and went down? What if the other cop slipped and fell and was knocked out? What if the BG took both guns and shot both cops? What if the Taser took out the first cop and the second cop shot the bad guy (a more reasonable what if)?

None of that happened. As much as we know now, the cops spent over 40 minutes with this guy. They tried to arrest him, rightfully so, he fought them which was a BAD idea, he took one cops Taser and ran, while running he looks like he may have tried to Taser the cop, 3 shots were fired and 2 hit him and killed him. That's all we know as far as now.

We can argue all day as to whether it was a justifiable use of lethal force or not. We are all allowed an opinion. The legal system will decide. For those that asked, I have never been tasered, I have never had a serious fight with a drunk person, I have never shot anyone, I have never killed anyone. I have the highest respect for law enforcement.

Georgia right now is facing the Arberry case and this case. One a retired LEO of some sort and one an active duty LEO. In the Arberry case all are in jail. The cop in this case was fired. He looks like he will be going to jail. Let's see how this plays out.

 

[Hoji]

@rotor , your posts come across as gleeful that LE is getting sacrificed at the alter of woke.

This case is clear to anyone who is capable of exercising sound judgment. Asswipe fought, stole a taser, ran, turned around and fired the taser at pursuing officer.
Officer responds with deadly force immediately after taser is fired.
Any reasonable person can see that this meets the definition of legal use of deadly force to protect life.

My question to you is, are you an antifa supporter that is actually happy about LE getting railroaded, or are you just completely incapable of making sound judgements ?

 

[rotor]

@rotor , your posts come across as gleeful that LE is getting sacrificed at the alter of woke.

This case is clear to anyone who is capable of exercising sound judgment. Asswipe fought, stole a taser, ran, turned around and fired the taser at pursuing officer.
Officer responds with deadly force immediately after taser is fired.
Any reasonable person can see that this meets the definition of legal use of deadly force to protect life.

My question to you is, are you an antifa supporter that is actually happy about LE getting railroaded, or are you just completely incapable of making sound judgements ?

Absolutely incorrect Hoji. I think antifa is a terrorist movement and would like to see them destroyed. You won't find anyone more supportive of police than me. I can express sound judgement regardless of your insinuations. I don't know why you feel that you have to attack my character or intelligence because I don't agree with you.

We both have looked at the same situation and came up with a different conclusion. This happens all the time. I can't see why anyone would vote for a democrat but they do. You know my conclusion about this situation and I know yours. I don't agree with you but I don't personally know you and can not say that your character is bad. We just don't agree on this issue.

Let's agree to wait and see how the legal system plays out. It may be fair and it may not but neither of us will be involved. Civilized people can agree to disagree and in this case we disagree. I don't see any value to further discuss this case at this point as I agree that the majority of people on this site that have posted don't agree with me. That's okay though as I have a right to my opinion and don't have to bow to majority rule.

 

[480 Ruger]

@rotor , your posts come across as gleeful that LE is getting sacrificed at the alter of woke.

This case is clear to anyone who is capable of exercising sound judgment. Asswipe fought, stole a taser, ran, turned around and fired the taser at pursuing officer.
Officer responds with deadly force immediately after taser is fired.
Any reasonable person can see that this meets the definition of legal use of deadly force to protect life.

My question to you is, are you an antifa supporter that is actually happy about LE getting railroaded, or are you just completely incapable of making sound judgements ?

According to Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard, under Georgia law, a taser is considered a deadly weapon.

 

[Hoji]

According to Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard, under Georgia law, a taser is considered a deadly weapon.

That could be a game changer if accurate

 

[480 Ruger]

That could be a game changer if accurate

I saw it in an article about the Atlanta cops who tased 2 college students in a vehicle.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/06/atla...icers-after-violent-arrests-are-caught-on-tv/

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Deleted.

 

[Axxe55]

So many what ifs. What if the cop was hit by the taser and went down? What if the other cop slipped and fell and was knocked out? What if the BG took both guns and shot both cops? What if the Taser took out the first cop and the second cop shot the bad guy (a more reasonable what if)?

None of that happened. As much as we know now, the cops spent over 40 minutes with this guy. They tried to arrest him, rightfully so, he fought them which was a BAD idea, he took one cops Taser and ran, while running he looks like he may have tried to Taser the cop, 3 shots were fired and 2 hit him and killed him. That's all we know as far as now.

We can argue all day as to whether it was a justifiable use of lethal force or not. We are all allowed an opinion. The legal system will decide. For those that asked, I have never been tasered, I have never had a serious fight with a drunk person, I have never shot anyone, I have never killed anyone. I have the highest respect for law enforcement.

Georgia right now is facing the Arberry case and this case. One a retired LEO of some sort and one an active duty LEO. In the Arberry case all are in jail. The cop in this case was fired. He looks like he will be going to jail. Let's see how this plays out.

Rotor, how many of your posts on various subjects are filled with "what-ifs" on various scenarios? What of this had happened? What if that had happened? Several times I have said to you, "We can what-if till the cows come home blue in the face."

In your second paragraph. At what point in that scenario would you think an officer would, or should be allowed to use deadly force? When one of them was incapacitated, or possibly injured, or dead?

Third paragraph. Okay, you have never been Tased, or gotten into a fight with a drunk person. How can you have an opinion on what those officers were dealing with for that 40 minutes of trying restrain the suspect? Remember, he was resisting and was drunk. Then getting one officer's Taser. IMO, that sequence of the events leading up to the officer firing at the suspect, justifies his use of deadly force, and gives me reason to believe he was in fear for his life.

Another question. IF you had been in that situation, YOU are the officer. and after fighting with the suspect, and he relieved you of YOUR weapon, (any weapon.) would YOU have let the suspect just flee? What would YOU have done in that situation?

 

[rotor]

Rotor, how many of your posts on various subjects are filled with "what-ifs" on various scenarios? What of this had happened? What if that had happened? Several times I have said to you, "We can what-if till the cows come home blue in the face."

In your second paragraph. At what point in that scenario would you think an officer would, or should be allowed to use deadly force? When one of them was incapacitated, or possibly injured, or dead?

Third paragraph. Okay, you have never been Tased, or gotten into a fight with a drunk person. How can you have an opinion on what those officers were dealing with for that 40 minutes of trying restrain the suspect? Remember, he was resisting and was drunk. Then getting one officer's Taser. IMO, that sequence of the events leading up to the officer firing at the suspect, justifies his use of deadly force, and gives me reason to believe he was in fear for his life.

Another question. IF you had been in that situation, YOU are the officer. and after fighting with the suspect, and he relieved you of YOUR weapon, (any weapon.) would YOU have let the suspect just flee? What would YOU have done in that situation?

If under Georgia law a Taser is a deadly weapon than the situation changes. Note that they had already tased the BG while trying to arrest him. So I guess they had already used lethal force, and I believe were correct as he was resisting a legal arrest although they would probably claim they were not using lethal force when they tased him. As far as the officers, they were only having a confrontation with him after they tried to cuff him and for over 40 minutes they were civil, as if this matters. If this were me, wearing body armor, with an armed backup in case I was overwhelmed I would not have fired with him running with my taser. If he had my gun than yes, shoot the guy. If I were without a backup and the possibility that he could have tased me, taken my gun, I would have shot.
So, we can argue this all day though as we don't know what was in the cops mind. Was he just angry that this guy whopped him and his partner even after being tased, stole his taser and was making him look like a fool? Was he afraid for his life or serious bodily injury? We don't know, but you asked what I would have done in this situation with an armed cop next to me able to take down the subject if need be, I would have let him run and arrested him later.

 

[Axxe55]

If under Georgia law a Taser is a deadly weapon than the situation changes. Note that they had already tased the BG while trying to arrest him. So I guess they had already used lethal force, and I believe were correct as he was resisting a legal arrest although they would probably claim they were not using lethal force when they tased him. As far as the officers, they were only having a confrontation with him after they tried to cuff him and for over 40 minutes they were civil, as if this matters. If this were me, wearing body armor, with an armed backup in case I was overwhelmed I would not have fired with him running with my taser. If he had my gun than yes, shoot the guy. If I were without a backup and the possibility that he could have tased me, taken my gun, I would have shot.
So, we can argue this all day though as we don't know what was in the cops mind. Was he just angry that this guy whopped him and his partner even after being tased, stole his taser and was making him look like a fool? Was he afraid for his life or serious bodily injury? We don't know, but you asked what I would have done in this situation with an armed cop next to me able to take down the subject if need be, I would have let him run and arrested him later.

Okay. I see your point.

But that very last sentence is where I have a problem with. You do understand what taking an oath is as a LE officer? The sworn duty to enforce the law when it is broken. Especially when it's done right before you. So allowing the suspect to flee and arrest him at a later time would be classified as dereliction of the officer's sworn duty.

What if the suspect was just allowed to flee, and then using the officer's Taser on an innocent bystander a few blocks away, steals a car, commits armed robbery and then kills someone?

I'm sorry Rotor, but that isn't an acceptable option for any LE officer to do. The potential for other violent crimes to occur because of letting them flee and getting them later seems very possible.

 

[jrbfishn]

Again, you "what if" falls apart from assumptions.
Bad guy tases you and gets your gun. And starts to turn on you.
But glory be, you have a back up! And you actually get your hand on it.
Do you have enough muscle control yet to use it?
Is the BG going to wait while you draw and shoot?
Is he still squeezing the trigger on the taser while you lay there convulsing and shoots you in the head?

Oh my! So many "what if's" you left out to make a point.

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[oldag]

I'm really getting tired of all the BLM related news.

How about a good caliber war?

 

[Axxe55]

I'm really getting tired of all the BLM related news.

How about a good caliber war?

Hmmm....10mm vs. 45 ACP!

 

[Hoji]

Hmmm....10mm vs. 45 ACP!

No contest. Best mm wins hands down.

 

[Mohawk600]

10 mm

 

[rotor]

Everybody using what ifs. I like Glocks better than 1911's. No, I like 1911's more than Glocks. Taurus makes a great gun. Taurus stinks. We all need to use a BOS. None of us should use a BOS.
I will be interested in seeing how this plays out.

 

[Southpaw]

We all need to use a BOS..

No we don't and let me tell you why.........