If open carry passes...

[Texan2]

Just out of curiosity, who are all these people OCing? OD cops?

I dont know who you are reffering to...in the conversations I have had, I believe that we were speaking theoretically about people who would or do OC. LOL...and of all the cops I know, and I know quite a few, none of them would ever OC off duty. I take that back...there are a few new guys with "rookie-itis" that want to OC everywhere...it usually wears off after a few months.

Y'know, I heard much the same "argument" from some LEO's during the CHL debate - that folks would be waving guns around, etc. I think what they didn't count on was the seriousness with which MOST folks take carrying a firearm.

I haven't heard that argument from anyone I know, that anyone would be waving guns around. As stated, the circles I run in have no issue with it being legal.

 

[Bithabus]

I dont know who you are reffering to...in the conversations I have had, I believe that we were speaking theoretically about people who would or do OC. LOL...and of all the cops I know, and I know quite a few, none of them would ever OC off duty. I take that back...there are a few new guys with "rookie-itis" that want to OC everywhere...it usually wears off after a few months.

I'm referring to this comment:

I dont think many of my friends care if it is legal, they just didnt understand why anyone would want to do it. Their opinion....and it is merely an opinion, is that OCing is usually done by those that want to "showboat".
I am not saying that everyone who OCs is showing off, but I can understand their perspective.

Your friends believe "OCing is usually done by those that want to "showboat"", and you say "I am not saying that everyone who OCs is showing off".

So these "showboating" OCers don't actually exist? And the OCers "showing off" are just a figment of your imagination?

You do realize this is exactly what Liberals do when they make their anti-gun "arguments"?

 

[Texan2]

I'm referring to this comment: Your friends believe "OCing is usually done by those that want to "showboat"", and you say "I am not saying that everyone who OCs is showing off".

So these "showboating" OCers don't actually exist? And the OCers "showing off" are just a figment of your imagination?

You do realize this is exactly what Liberals do when they make their anti-gun "arguments"?

You make HUGE and I mean HUGE leaps to conclusions.
I share with you that there are pro gun people who think some of those that want to OC are doing so to show off. It is their opinion. Yet time and time again you try to disect each and every word I post to somehow bolster your case for OC. I am not sure what YOUR point is my friend. You want a case to be cited for each and every time someone expresses an opinion.

The guy who says "I cant wait for OC so I can show my idiot neighbor who's boss"... there is no internet story on that guy, yet he is out there. Will he make or break OC? Doubtful, but those guys still exist.

These are classic examples of why OC will not come to Texas anytime soon. Many (not all) of those who back it are so unable to concede that theirs is not the only point of view.

Whether anti-gunners use that arguement is irrelevent to me. Some pro 2A guys are so ate up with hating liberals that they refuse to see that they sometimes may make a good point about a subject.

So instead of figuring out how to get all the pro gun people together to support your cause, you are beating a dead horse about how smart and useful OC is.

What amazes me is that all of this is being directed at someone who doesn't oppose OC.

 

[Bithabus]

You make HUGE and I mean HUGE leaps to conclusions.
I share with you that there are pro gun people who think some of those that want to OC are doing so to show off. It is their opinion. Yet time and time again you try to disect each and every word I post to somehow bolster your case for OC. I am not sure what YOUR point is my friend. You want a case to be cited for each and every time someone expresses an opinion.

The guy who says "I cant wait for OC so I can show my idiot neighbor who's boss"... there is no internet story on that guy, yet he is out there. Will he make or break OC? Doubtful, but those guys still exist.

These are classic examples of why OC will not come to Texas anytime soon. Many (not all) of those who back it are so unable to concede that theirs is not the only point of view.

Whether anti-gunners use that arguement is irrelevent to me. Some pro 2A guys are so ate up with hating liberals that they refuse to see that they sometimes may make a good point about a subject.

So instead of figuring out how to get all the pro gun people together to support your cause, you are beating a dead horse about how smart and useful OC is.

What amazes me is that all of this is being directed at someone who doesn't oppose OC.

You made it sound like your friends witnessed some "showboating" open carriers and I was curious about that. I've never witnessed that myself. I understand many Texans believe OC will bring out mall ninjas and gun brandishers, but this is a stupid belief. It would be a reasonable concern if OC were illegal in every State, but of course it is not. Anyone who thinks people OC only to showboat should take a vacation to Arizona. Tucson is a nice area.

Texascop, I know we're on the same side. I also know you're an intelligent and well-informed guy and I appreciate the fact that you're willing to argue with me.

 

[KAK]

Once again these "friends" of TXCOP don't even trust their own demographic. Are you listening to some of the things they have said??

Showboating? You are 2 inches away from using the blood in the streets to describe OC.

 

[Texan2]

This is the reason which would make me back OC....
if you use this as the backbone for your future battle in Austin, you will get much further than using any of the other reasons. Yesterday I had a few friends aver, all avid shooters and gun owners (and all non-LE). None said they would support OC. Their fear was that wannabe yahoos would act stupid and in the long run bring more heat on gun owners for their actions.
I made the argument for OC based on the fact that it is our right. Half the crowd came over and agreed with me, but in the end they all were still concerned that OCers would put gun owners in a bad light.
If regular old gun owners are this tepid about OC, you guys have a long road ahead of you.

If you re-read it...they are gun owners and shooters but see little use for OC. Their concern is that somebody wanting to show off, and there would be some (ok, a lot) that fit that catagory would do something stupid and the reprecussions would hurt pro gun people more than OC helps us. It is a valid concern, IMHO, but I dont see any anti gun sentiment there.

I dont think that to be an argumentative question.
And it is good that you want to address the concern.
Whether we like it or not, or admit it or not, there are many that CC and many that would OC just for the "cool factor". The one issue with having untrained folks who are not at all familiar with the law carrying guns is that they confuse the right to carry with the right to use the gun. They are two vary different issues, yet there seems to be a tendency for those who have a new right to carry many times look for an occasion to display their firearm.

Before the deluge of posts hits me, I dont have a list of occurances. Yet I have sat in on several CHL classes that an associate teaches and in casual conversation at each class there are a handful of students that talk about stopping a criminal, "finally getting some respect" from the neighborhood gang bangers, making sure the neighbor's dog doesn't come in their yard...etc.

I equate it to having a Ferrari and not being able to drive over 70mph. Sometimes the temptation to use what you have at your disposal is overwhelming.

I would also describe stupid as engaging in confrontations while OCing, and placing your hand on your gun or somehow trying to use that smokewagon on your hip to intimidate.
It is unfortunate, but many in our society don't know where that line is that they are not supposed to cross.
I would not want the backlash to further erode any gunrights.

I believe that there are idiot CCers out there too...lots of them. Part of the price we pay to be able to excercise our rights.

I would beg to differ, but as stated, just because it is an unwise thing to do doesn't mean it should be illegal.

No, that statement is just an observation. And I may have mentioned it a dozen times or so but I am not argueing against OC being legal. I merely mentioned my opinion that OC is not a wise thing to do regardless of the legality.

I dont think many of my friends care if it is legal, they just didnt understand why anyone would want to do it. Their opinion....and it is merely an opinion, is that OCing is usually done by those that want to "showboat".
I am not saying that everyone who OCs is showing off, but I can understand their perspective.

I dont know who you are reffering to...in the conversations I have had, I believe that we were speaking theoretically about people who would or do OC. LOL...and of all the cops I know, and I know quite a few, none of them would ever OC off duty. I take that back...there are a few new guys with "rookie-itis" that want to OC everywhere...it usually wears off after a few months.


I haven't heard that argument from anyone I know, that anyone would be waving guns around. As stated, the circles I run in have no issue with it being legal.

These are the posts I typed in this thread. I cant see where I made it sound like they witnessed showboating, merely that it was a fear.

 

[Texan2]

Once again these "friends" of TXCOP don't even trust their own demographic. Are you listening to some of the things they have said??

Showboating? You are 2 inches away from using the blood in the streets to describe OC.

Trust their own demographic??? What the hell are you talking about? Amazing how you are now clairvoyant and can tell what I am about to say next. KAK, did you not say you aren't even old enough to buy bullets yet? I love to see a young pro gun advocate and am glad that you found a cause that motivates you to take some action. But I will ask that you excuse me for not putting a huge amount of weight in the vast amount of first hand knowledge or life experience you are contributing to this subject.

 

[KAK]

Wow, bring a completely unrelated factor into this. You don't know me, nor would you have known that I held a job for over a year that dealt with gun owners EVERY DAY!!! I have filled out hundreds of 4473s called NICS hundreds of times. I have dealt with thousands of gun owners. I absolutely have the experience to add content to this conversation, probably more than most on this board.

We can also make other assumptions that are wildly ridiculous like you are too stupid to do anything of value, so that is why you became a cop.

 

[Texan2]

That last post sets up such an easy slam dunk....but alas I wont stoop to that level as it would be downright cruel. LMAO.... I remember being 19 or 20 and thinking I knew it all too.

Good luck with getting your OC bill passed KAK, I hope you are successful.

 

[zembonez]

If this subject turns into an all out brawl every time it is mentioned on our DEDICATED GUN WEBSITE, how the hell can we expect the general public to endorse such a thing?

Come on guys. Even if we disagree, let's attempt to be civil.

Sometimes this place seems like it's inhabited by third graders. Hell, sometimes I think we are third graders.

 

[Texan2]

Sometimes this place seems like it's inhabited by third graders.

Its a great topic to discuss....the emotion needs to be dialed down a bit. I cant put my thumb on why simply bringing up different viewpoints is ill-tolerated here.

As far as the third grader thing....I did eat a PB&J for lunch.

 

[zembonez]

Its a great topic to discuss....the emotion needs to be dialed down a bit. I cant put my thumb on why simply bringing up different viewpoints is ill-tolerated here.

As far as the third grader thing....I did eat a PB&J for lunch.

We need to solve that. It makes us look like uninformed hicks. Otherwise we are probably pushing valid members away from posting here. I'd bet a lot of our non-posters have some good stuff to add to the site.

Yeah... I play third grader at times too!

 

[KAK]

That last post sets up such an easy slam dunk....but alas I wont stoop to that level as it would be downright cruel. LMAO.... I remember being 19 or 20 and thinking I knew it all too.

Good luck with getting your OC bill passed KAK, I hope you are successful.

I never once said I know everything. I don't think I do either. I like to learn, I have learned allot from you actually. I do however believe the comments these friends are anti-gun. Leading me to believe that gun owners are their own worst enemy for some of these bills.

There is nothing wrong with OC, other states allow it and it is not an issue. I have admitted that I dont see tons of value in OC, however I will NEVER support forfeiting that right to the government because of showboating.

 

[Texan2]

I never once said I know everything. I don't think I do either. I like to learn, I have learned allot from you actually. I do however believe the comments these friends are anti-gun. Leading me to believe that gun owners are their own worst enemy for some of these bills.

There is nothing wrong with OC, other states allow it and it is not an issue. I have admitted that I dont see tons of value in OC, however I will NEVER support forfeiting that right to the government because of showboating.

Got it....that is a rational post and I dont mind responding to it. Based on what you just said it appears were are in agreement on this topic.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

We can also make other assumptions that are wildly ridiculous like you are too stupid to do anything of value, so that is why you became a cop.

Did we not just go over attitudes over the past few weeks? You need to rethink yours. If you're trying to educate someone and get them to understand your point of view, and possibly come over to your side of the fence, using antagonistic dialogue is not conducive to this.

 

[KAK]

I did call that assumption wildly ridiculous.

 

[okie556]

If this subject turns into an all out brawl every time it is mentioned on our DEDICATED GUN WEBSITE, how the hell can we expect the general public to endorse such a thing?

Come on guys. Even if we disagree, let's attempt to be civil.

Sometimes this place seems like it's inhabited by third graders. Hell, sometimes I think we are third graders.

EXACTLY!! (Less the 3rd grader part) The original post was If OC passed......would you carry? We've fought back and forth for days and things have been said in the heat of the moment. Seems to me that every person on this forum should support the OC law. If you choose to not OC......fine.....that's your choice. Others will choose to OC. Myself.....not sure at this time if I would or wouldn't. I definitely know there would be more times when I would still carry concealed. But that doesn't mean I would not vote FOR OC if I had the chance.

 

[Texan2]

I havent seen anyone on this thread that doesnt support OC

 

[okie556]

I havent seen anyone on this thread that doesnt support OC

Really?? My bad. Guess I am confused by such quotes you made like the one below. And yes I know you stated in another quote that you are not against OC. You just have a strange way of showing your support.

I merely mentioned my opinion that OC is not a wise thing to do regardless of the legality.

 

[Texan2]

I merely mentioned my opinion that OC is not a wise thing to do regardless of the legality.

You are confusing the legality of it vs. the wisdom of it. I certainly think it should be legal. I also certainly think it is not a wise choice for civilians. Nothing that should confuse anyone.

I agree that you shouldnt have to wear a motorcycle helmet. Do I wear one? Yes, I think it is unwise to ride without one, but I support you being free to choose.

You get what I am saying?