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Yet another Open Carry thread

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  • HairyEyeball

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    Howdy, folks. As the membership director of Arizona Citizens Defense League, if there's anything I can help with in your effort to form a Texas CDL, just ask. We were inspired by the Virginia Citizens Defense League (obviously another good source), some members of which moved out here and discovered 'the wild west' was nowhere as advanced in firearms freedom as our reputation warranted - much like modern-day Texas.

    Our website has been down for a few days, as some of you have discovered, it's back up.

    If there's any 'secret' to our success, it's persistence: Our Constitutional Carry law, currently our flagship bill, is something we'd gotten through both Houses for two consecutive years, only to have it die on our former Governor's desk - the same former governor now posing as fatherland security gestapo fuhrer - two consecutive times. Some would call that a 'defeat' after the first time, some after the second, but we did pass it through both houses, twice...hardly a 'defeat', and governors change. We also stick to our mission: We're 'the gun lobby' in Arizona. We don't let ourselves (as an organization) get publicly involved in legislation outside our sphere (like SB 1070).

    We're fortunate enough to have two individuals who have the time and resources to be our full-time, unpaid volunteer lobbyists at the capitol every day the legislature is in session. With a constantly growing, constantly improving cadre of recruiters and a presence at every gun show, every TEA Party, every event 'our kind of people' may be found, we've been growing our membership from four founding members with the idea to our current level of 3500.

    We make use of our members by what we ask them to as well as what we don't: We all know what the problems are, and that sitting around complaining about them to each other won't solve them, so we don't hold meetings - except for the annual, where we provide good food and plenty of it, relevant speakers, and the opportunity - in fact, the request - for 'tasteful open carry' of your finest barbecue gun. We limit our contact with members to four e-newsletters a year ('treeware' version available on request), one annual meeting notification, and, during the legislative session, only those bills that concern us: The bill name and number, what it says, what our position is, who to contact, and how to contact them. We also began by supplying a pre-written, 'sign-and-send' letter, and as income allowed, switched over to the CapWiz system, which targets our members' elected reps by zip code. We actively recruit our legislators (and legislative candidates) - and with over 25% of the current legislature as members, we have the access (and trust) to sit down with them and craft good legislation. We make it a point to have people travel to the capitol to testify on bills, and when we can open with "I represent over 3500 Arizona voters", we get their attention. When our mailing list - which goes far beyond our membership, their friends and families - crashes the capitol email server, they know who's watching their votes - and with their voting records on firearm-related legislation permanently posted on our website year after year, there's no way they can hide.

    We established three levels of membership: Basic Annual @ $30, Sustaining Annual @ $50, and Life @ $300, but discount each by $10 at gun shows and later, other events. We designed a distinctive T-shirt which we give with Annual and Life, or sell for those who support us without joining, or want more than one. We recognize our outstanding volunteers and our 'friends' in the legislature in front of their peers at our annual banquet - with plaques or trophies, or 'practical' items: Certificates and memberships to Front Sight are highly prized, and readily available. Better yet, we organize an annual trip to Front Sight (enough of us to overfill a class) - and 'sell' it as part of our commitment to 'responsible firearms ownership'.

    That's a little off the top of my head. Hope there's something in there you can adopt - or adapt - and I'll shut this down before it becomes endless, but if there are any specific questions, either post them or PM/email me.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Thank you for the info Hairyeyeball.
    This is something I think will make Texas a better place to be. My effort is to provide Texans with the ability of self choice. Our current laws dont allow us to do that at the moment.
    Right now im reviewing my finances so that I may start a new website for the TSCDL. I think that will be the first and most important step..
    With the help and advise you offer, I hope this will become reality.
     

    Renegade

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    Here is the problem here in Texas. We don't have a real pro-gun legilative lobby group here. .

    Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about.

    That is exactly what TSRA is. They have been doing it for decades. Guess you weren't here when we didn't even have CHL. They have passed dozens of pro-gun bills and stopped even more anti-gun bills. TSRA gets over 98% of its bills passed, the Parking Lot bill being one they have not and it is obviously a sore spot they want to win on.

    The fact is, when the gun rights are prioritized, OC falls far from the top, and given the limited time the Texas legislature is in session, you really can only focus on a couple of bills.

    You want OC, get 100,000 folks to join TSRA and write letters stating it needs to be #1 priority. Then it will get done. That is how we got CHL when the Fudds really weren't interested in it.

    And yes I know who Tripp is and have talked to her, and her attitude is a big problem.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about.

    That is exactly what TSRA is. They have been doing it for decades. Guess you weren't here when we didn't even have CHL. They have passed dozens of pro-gun bills and stopped even more anti-gun bills. TSRA gets over 98% of its bills passed, the Parking Lot bill being one they have not and it is obviously a sore spot they want to win on.

    The fact is, when the gun rights are prioritized, OC falls far from the top, and given the limited time the Texas legislature is in session, you really can only focus on a couple of bills.

    You want OC, get 100,000 folks to join TSRA and write letters stating it needs to be #1 priority. Then it will get done. That is how we got CHL when the Fudds really weren't interested in it.

    And yes I know who Tripp is and have talked to her, and her attitude is a big problem.

    I dont have issues with any firearm groups other than those who dont support the rights we should all have. Without Constitutional Rights, none of use have the freedom of choice.
    Texans are not criminal. Texans should not be treated as such. No man should be restricted by law if he hasen't commited a crime.
    The only issue I have with the TSRA is a attitude of Mrs. Tripp. She stated point blank that She does not support Open Carry. Constitutional Rights have no room for that kind of lobbiest. She also made offensive comments toward the people who visited them requesting Open Carry rights.
    Im not a person who wast my time with people that serve special interest. I study the laws other state organizations fight for with sucess. I also study the negativity and benefit those laws have for the people of those states. What I have found with any law that allow's freedom for its citizens is crime drop's.
    I am most thankful for the members who share my ideas and are willing to help start a new era in Texas Law. Together we will suceed in making Texas a State with Constitutional Law..
     

    MR Redneck

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    It already is. The Texas Constitution authorizes the legislature to regulate the wearing of arms. Thus banning OC is Constitutional even if we do not like it.

    Wrong! We are the Republic, We make the laws for our State Govenment to enforce.
    Aint no room for the " even if we dont like it" kind of legislature in Texas...
    No matter what can be done about, effort will be made without special interest.
     

    Renegade

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    Not wrong. Try reading the Texas Constitution sometime. The Texas Constitution DOES INDEED authorizes the legislature to regulate the wearing of arms.

    We are the Republic, We make the laws for our State Govenment to enforce.

    Yes, and one of the ones that has been made is to ban OC for the most part, and they enforce it.

    Aint no room for the " even if we dont like it" kind of legislature in Texas...

    Looks like you only support a Republic when they pass laws you like...
     

    MR Redneck

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    Buddy, I have read it. I know exactly what you saying, but that doesnt make it acceptable for legislature to say No We Cant.
    Your missing the big picture here. If Texans want restrictions, or freedoms, it has to be voted on by the citizens. If we currently has restrictions that people dont like, then its Legislatures obligation to put it to a vote! What has been, has nothing to do with what will be..
     

    Renegade

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    If we currently has restrictions that people dont like, then its Legislatures obligation to put it to a vote!

    Agreed, but it seems to me the people do like it and don't see a need to vote on it again. That is the problem, always has been. People are not likely to invest political capital in something they are not going to use anyway, and OC is generally in that category. We are luck to have CHL as only 2.5% of the population uses it.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Man, I sure do know a lot of people that support OC. From my friends, to site mambers. The only problem I see with OC is the people who lobby for us dont like OC.
    As I stated before, I dont carry hanguns. Even if we do get OC, I still might not carry. The goal I have is to enable Texans to have that choice.
     

    Renegade

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    Man, I sure do know a lot of people that support OC. From my friends, to site mambers. The only problem I see with OC is the people who lobby for us dont like OC

    Do you know tens of not hundreds of thousands? Are they all willing to call Texas legislature in the next few weeks? That is what it will take. We go down this road every odd year and the result is the same - the OC folks bitch and whine that there is no OC, but no significant number ever becomes politically active to see it through to happening. TSRA holds its annual meeting in the Spring. Get all your OC friends to join TSRA and then have a 2011 Mesquite Revolt (google 1977 Cincinnati revolt). The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
     

    MR Redneck

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    Do you know tens of not hundreds of thousands? Are they all willing to call Texas legislature in the next few weeks? That is what it will take. We go down this road every odd year and the result is the same - the OC folks bitch and whine that there is no OC, but no significant number ever becomes politically active to see it through to happening. TSRA holds its annual meeting in the Spring. Get all your OC friends to join TSRA and then have a 2011 Mesquite Revolt (google 1977 Cincinnati revolt). The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
    Soon, very Soon.
    Minus the TSRA part.
     

    randmplumbingllc

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    Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about.

    That is exactly what TSRA is. They have been doing it for decades. Guess you weren't here when we didn't even have CHL. They have passed dozens of pro-gun bills and stopped even more anti-gun bills. TSRA gets over 98% of its bills passed, the Parking Lot bill being one they have not and it is obviously a sore spot they want to win on.

    The fact is, when the gun rights are prioritized, OC falls far from the top, and given the limited time the Texas legislature is in session, you really can only focus on a couple of bills.

    You want OC, get 100,000 folks to join TSRA and write letters stating it needs to be #1 priority. Then it will get done. That is how we got CHL when the Fudds really weren't interested in it.

    And yes I know who Tripp is and have talked to her, and her attitude is a big problem.

    The difference is that TSRA and the NRA do all kinds of other things. www.azcdl.org does nothing but lobby the legislature for Arizona gun rights. I was not saying that TSRA does NOTHING, I AM saying that AZCDL does NOTHING ELSE. So don't think I am bashing any other group. I am not.
     

    randmplumbingllc

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    Howdy, folks. As the membership director of Arizona Citizens Defense League, if there's anything I can help with in your effort to form a Texas CDL, just ask. We were inspired by the Virginia Citizens Defense League (obviously another good source), some members of which moved out here and discovered 'the wild west' was nowhere as advanced in firearms freedom as our reputation warranted - much like modern-day Texas.

    Our website has been down for a few days, as some of you have discovered, it's back up.

    If there's any 'secret' to our success, it's persistence: Our Constitutional Carry law, currently our flagship bill, is something we'd gotten through both Houses for two consecutive years, only to have it die on our former Governor's desk - the same former governor now posing as fatherland security gestapo fuhrer - two consecutive times. Some would call that a 'defeat' after the first time, some after the second, but we did pass it through both houses, twice...hardly a 'defeat', and governors change. We also stick to our mission: We're 'the gun lobby' in Arizona. We don't let ourselves (as an organization) get publicly involved in legislation outside our sphere (like SB 1070).

    We're fortunate enough to have two individuals who have the time and resources to be our full-time, unpaid volunteer lobbyists at the capitol every day the legislature is in session. With a constantly growing, constantly improving cadre of recruiters and a presence at every gun show, every TEA Party, every event 'our kind of people' may be found, we've been growing our membership from four founding members with the idea to our current level of 3500.

    We make use of our members by what we ask them to as well as what we don't: We all know what the problems are, and that sitting around complaining about them to each other won't solve them, so we don't hold meetings - except for the annual, where we provide good food and plenty of it, relevant speakers, and the opportunity - in fact, the request - for 'tasteful open carry' of your finest barbecue gun. We limit our contact with members to four e-newsletters a year ('treeware' version available on request), one annual meeting notification, and, during the legislative session, only those bills that concern us: The bill name and number, what it says, what our position is, who to contact, and how to contact them. We also began by supplying a pre-written, 'sign-and-send' letter, and as income allowed, switched over to the CapWiz system, which targets our members' elected reps by zip code. We actively recruit our legislators (and legislative candidates) - and with over 25% of the current legislature as members, we have the access (and trust) to sit down with them and craft good legislation. We make it a point to have people travel to the capitol to testify on bills, and when we can open with "I represent over 3500 Arizona voters", we get their attention. When our mailing list - which goes far beyond our membership, their friends and families - crashes the capitol email server, they know who's watching their votes - and with their voting records on firearm-related legislation permanently posted on our website year after year, there's no way they can hide.

    We established three levels of membership: Basic Annual @ $30, Sustaining Annual @ $50, and Life @ $300, but discount each by $10 at gun shows and later, other events. We designed a distinctive T-shirt which we give with Annual and Life, or sell for those who support us without joining, or want more than one. We recognize our outstanding volunteers and our 'friends' in the legislature in front of their peers at our annual banquet - with plaques or trophies, or 'practical' items: Certificates and memberships to Front Sight are highly prized, and readily available. Better yet, we organize an annual trip to Front Sight (enough of us to overfill a class) - and 'sell' it as part of our commitment to 'responsible firearms ownership'.

    That's a little off the top of my head. Hope there's something in there you can adopt - or adapt - and I'll shut this down before it becomes endless, but if there are any specific questions, either post them or PM/email me.

    Thanks for responding Duke,

    I have been singing the praises of AZCDL since I moved to Texas 16 months ago. Since I got involved with you guys a few years ago, AZCDL has really taken off.
    There were less then a thousand members when I became a member. I got involved because of the dedication that I saw at every gun show that I went to. I was very involved in getting HB2634 passed in 2008 ( even from my hospital bed ). Even had a hand in gettng that passed here too.

    The "secret" to the sucess of AZCDL is the "core" of the group. Dave, John, Charles, Fred and yourself have worked to endlessly to get the word out ( for NO PAY ) about people needing to get involved in their state and changing minds and perceptions about guns.

    As a life member, I still do what I can, to help AZCDL, however I can.

    I can only hope that we can have a fraction of success that AZCDL has had.

    Wish I could make the annual meeting this year (made the last one, in Tucson), but will have to try to make the next one.

    Rich
     

    Cliffh

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    Do you know tens of not hundreds of thousands? Are they all willing to call Texas legislature in the next few weeks? That is what it will take. We go down this road every odd year and the result is the same - the OC folks bitch and whine that there is no OC, but no significant number ever becomes politically active to see it through to happening. TSRA holds its annual meeting in the Spring. Get all your OC friends to join TSRA and then have a 2011 Mesquite Revolt (google 1977 Cincinnati revolt). The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

    There's a petition with at least 65k signatures - guess that's not enough? Where did you get the 100k number? I mean that seriously.

    I realize that the more signatures the better, but 65k sounds like quite a few voters. Not to mention the families & friends who've signed and those who haven't heard of the petition yet.

    Yes, the TSRA has done quite a bit for gun legislation. But officials who won't even listen to folks who contact them (members and/or non-members of their organization) either don't belong in the organization or at least need some "counseling". A gun rights organization should be willing to support even non-members.

    I'd quess that quite a few of the pro-OC people work during the day, making it challenging or impossible for them to attend a meeting.

    In these dire economic times, a lack of money may keep those who desire to attend from going to a rally/meeting. I personally know people who would like to join TSRA but can't afford the dues. The only avenue people with money problems have is for an organization such as TSRA or TXCDL to represent them. If that organization won't listen to them, they have no representation. And I'd venture to bet there are more than a few people in these monetary circumstances.

    HairyEyeball and all the others

    I sincerely appreciate the offers of assistance. I too would be like to offer my assistance in starting/maintaining an OC organization.

    Think I'll start a poll thread here and on a couple other boards to get a tentive count on how many people may be interested in forming a TCDL. It may be a few hours, got a couple of honey-do's to take care of first.
     

    TexasFats

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    I wonder which is more important, viz-a-viz open carry versus campus and parking lot carry, getting the right to carry openly in the areas where we can carry concealed now, or reducing the number of unarmed victim zones in Texas? For my money, reducing the number of unarmed victim zones by expanding concealed carry is better. That also seems more important to TSRA.

    Far too often, gun owners have taken an all-or-nothing approach to expanding our gun rights. That is a really good way to get--nothing! Think about it. Expand concealed carry, then, when the sky doesn't fall, go for open carry.
     

    randmplumbingllc

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    I wonder which is more important, viz-a-viz open carry versus campus and parking lot carry, getting the right to carry openly in the areas where we can carry concealed now, or reducing the number of unarmed victim zones in Texas? For my money, reducing the number of unarmed victim zones by expanding concealed carry is better. That also seems more important to TSRA.

    Far too often, gun owners have taken an all-or-nothing approach to expanding our gun rights. That is a really good way to get--nothing! Think about it. Expand concealed carry, then, when the sky doesn't fall, go for open carry.

    Well, the fact is, that it "is" a "all or nothing" deal. I can tell you, from being involved in Arizona legislation, that there is no harm in fighting for everything you want. You may or may not get it, but don't fight for peanuts, when you want the whole farm. If you do, the most you will get is peanuts.

    Why does there have to be an order, on which laws need to be worked on first ? Like one peice of legislation is more important then another ? Different legislation is important to different people. My opinion (which means nothing) is that everyone that can legally possess a handgun, should have the right to carry it, for self protection. Now, I can hear it already " get a CHL and that is a done deal". Wrong ! How about the people that can't afford the class, ammo and other fee's. Okay "waive or reduce the fees", you say. That still does not get that done. Why ? How about all the 18 to almost 21 year olds that can legally possess a handgun, but can't carry it ? Uncle Sam says they are good enough to Open Carry one in Iraq, does he not ?

    I think that the basic freedoms need to be realized for ALL LEGAL FIREARM OWNERS first.

    I know that lots will disagree with me.....and that is fine. Again, whatever is closest to home will be the most important to most.
    We have to start somewhere !
     
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