What piece of range gear helped improve your shooting more than any other?

[txinvestigator]

Give it up. Lol he's an awesome shot he doesn't need help.

I never claimed that, either.

I don't understand the attacks because I don't use "gear" to improve. If gear makes you better, good on you. IMO, fundamentals make you better. Gear can make you look cool while shooting. Looking cool is, well.................cool.

 

[txinvestigator]

Not denying that. Dont know the man. If a person is going to deny there are things you can do or even things you could buy (gasp!) or improvise, I dont know if they look at training the same way as I do.

Im not a gear queer (or any other kind!). I respect his sentiment but I find it overly simplistic.

If TXI is a high level shooter, great. Why not examine what could get you to the next step? Is the answer always just more range time and more rounds down range? I dont think so.

FUNDAMENTALS. I never said I was a "high level shooter". I have been to lots of schools, and scored some scores I am proud of; however, there are always folks who lock my ass.

 

[breakingcontact]

FUNDAMENTALS. I never said I was a "high level shooter". I have been to lots of schools, and scored some scores I am proud of; however, there are always folks who lock my ass.

Right and I bet those shooters who "lock your ass" probably are OPEN to using tools to improve their shooting abilities.

Also there are no attacks, but the closed minded view that the only way to get better is to shoot and all you need for that is a gun and some bullets smacks of claiming "purist" status and looking down on those who value such accouterments.

Can we not appreciate and believe in mastering the fundamentals while using various pieces of gear at the range to improve our fundamentals and overall shooting?

 

[txinvestigator]

Right and I bet those shooters who "lock your ass" probably are OPEN to using tools to improve their shooting abilities.

LMAO. HOw did "kick" get to "lock"? Actually, none of them use gimmicks. They simply practice fundamentals more than I do.

Also there are no attacks, but the closed minded view that the only way to get better is to shoot and all you need for that is a gun and some bullets smacks of claiming "purist" status and looking down on those who value such accouterments.

Can we not appreciate and believe in mastering the fundamentals while using various pieces of gear at the range to improve our fundamentals and overall shooting?

"Closed minded" = "don't agree with you". Dude, you can play with all of the gimmicks and gear you want. If it makes YOU better good for you. I happen to believe in fundamentals. How many schools have you been to? How many people have you taught to shoot? How many instructor schools have you been to?

If you need to get better, practice.

 

[NOLA Jack]

LMAO. HOw did "kick" get to "lock"? Actually, none of them use gimmicks. They simply practice fundamentals more than I do.

Quite a few pieces of range gear are gimmicks, quite a few aren't. I don't know of any great shooter who doesn't use a shot timer.

 

[breakingcontact]

How many schools have you been to? How many people have you taught to shoot? How many instructor schools have you been to?

If you need to get better, practice.

I thought "lock your ass" was some insider cop jargon.

How many schools have I been to? Zero. How many people have I taught to shoot? Zero.

Both of those things are irrelevant however.

Getting better through practice? Sure. I do that. Range "gimmicks" id imagine we both agree are superfluous.

Im talking about timers, targets and things like that. Not the latest 5.11 Tactical shooting shoes.

 

[txinvestigator]

Quite a few pieces of range gear are gimmicks, quite a few aren't. I don't know of any great shooter who doesn't use a shot timer.

Shot timers serve a good purpose. I have used them, but only in classes I took. I know plenty of great shooters who do not use a timer.

 

[txinvestigator]

I thought "lock your ass" was some insider cop jargon.

How many schools have I been to? Zero. How many people have I taught to shoot? Zero.

Both of those things are irrelevant however.

It is 100% relevant.

 

[NOLA Jack]

All shooting is a practice of fundamentals. Range gear can be a tool to improve/practice those fundamentals. Some range gear gives you the opportunity to practice outside of the range(snap caps, dime on the front sight), some allow you to manufacture problems to solve at the range(snap cap, empty brass), some allow you to track your progress(shot timer), some gives you a way of pushing yourself to improve performance(shot timer, moving target, steel targets, or manufactured malfunctions under stress), and some gives you a way to confirm improvement/validate skills(shot timer, sim guns).

I don't know of any legitimate instructors or competent shooters who would advise against using certain pieces of range gear to get better and who haven't used range gear extensively. If you aren't using every available tool to make yourself better, you are handicapping yourself and will ultimately be worse because of it. If you would like some information on using range gear txinvestigator, let me know, and I'll be glad to explain it to you.

Thinking about it now, I don't know of any(though I am sure there are some) law enforcement agencies who administer qualifications without a shot timer.

 

[breakingcontact]

It is 100% relevant.

100%?

Extremist!

You know I am right and thats OK. I am comfortable enough to admit that what you are saying is true. You can become a very good shooter by just shooting. A good coach or formal classes help but so can some tools.

 

[kaiserb]

Me? Shot timer. Still need to buy one but have used them and found they help a ton.

A practice log book. If you are competing or need to make a decision about shoot / no shoot, knowing your times helps a lot

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I'm gonna get all philosophical and Tony Robbins on you all, so I apologize in advance. LOL

Breakingcontact and TXI bring up something that I feel is an important and profound point that is maybe a bit overlooked. There is, I think, an important distinction of words or concepts here, that can make a massive difference in terms of a person's performance, the efforts necessary to achieve that performance, etc. Tools are great, and they can be a serious multiplier that can drive things much more effectively than without those tools (at least in some cases). That being said, they are just tools. The other side of the equation is the human effort involved, as well as the focus, the consistency, and the frequency of those efforts. In that regard, I think both positions are actually right, they are simply both ends of the spectrum, which are mutually beneficial.

In simple terms, there are efficient ways and there are inefficient ways to accomplish your goals. I speak from experience in having found many of those inefficient ways (I often do things the hard way).

When I really got into shooting pistols heavily, the first couple of years, I decided it was something I really wanted to excel at. I began that journey in one of the more expensive, difficult, and time consuming ways. Several years ago I went back through bank statements of those first couple years, and estimated round counts as well as ammo cost. I was pretty consistently going to the range 2-4 times per week, with 200-500rds per visit. In the first roughly 2 years I had yet to take a single professional training class, taught myself entirely on my own (I have solid research skills and am very good at figuring out the questions to ask and finding the answers), and went through approximately 35,000 rounds of ammo, 80-90% of which was .45acp. I had a much better paying job and wasted a LOT of money on ammo. As I'm very methodical, repetitive, and self-reflective, I still managed to achieve a half way decent level of performance for being entirely self taught to that point...... In hindsight, I could have probably achieved that same level of performance within just a few short months, with just a couple thousand rounds of ammo, AND with taking a professional training class from an instructor that has good insight, good diagnostic skills, and can translate it for the student. So when I say I've done things the hard way, I don't think I'm exaggerating too much. Fast forward a few years after that, and a couple of training classes later, some things and previously unanswered questions that plagued me for years were "answered" very quickly, and my performance began getting exponentially better in a much shorter period of time.

So what's the point here? The things you do, the consistency with which you do them, the frequency with which you maintain those efforts, and the accountability with which you hold yourself to are all incredibly important in terms of accomplishing your goals effectively. There are often tools and gear that can allow you to maintain that accountability with yourself, that can allow you to develop consistency in your efforts, and can allow those efforts to be a bit more efficient and productive. I say "can allow" in that they do not necessarily make a person accomplish those things, they are simply opportunity for those that choose to take advantage of it. Over the years, I have seen many people that have taken what little they had, without having the absolute best tools and gear available to them, and have become absolute master blasters with what they do, due largely in part to their own perseverance, consistency, and significant effort placed accurately in the right areas. I have also seen my fair share of significant numbers of people, that have had all of the best tools, gear, and opportunities available, taking dozens upon dozens of classes from the best instructors in the industry, surrounding themselves with the best quality and best performing people, that have still not quite accomplished their goals or not achieved quite the performance you would expect given those opportunities....simply as a result of failure in personal methodologies, failure to maintain self-accountability to realistic standards, lack of consistency of efforts, etc.

Suffice to say, little things make a HUGE difference when you are trying to accomplish something of significance. For that reason alone, it is why we need to place significant effort in shaving those few tenths of a second, decreasing shot group size to the level of extreme accuracy, continual refinement of processes and equipment, etc.

 

[robertc1024]

No worries on the long post. Over a year ago, when I was a wet behind the ears newb, we had a similar discussion. Back to topic, I have been a damn good golfer and it is very similar to shooting in a lot of ways. You can go to the range and beat balls and all you do is ingrain your normal routine. You want to get better? Get a coach/trainer who knows a hell of a lot more than you do and if they are good enough to convey it to you - you're golden. IMHO - that's the piece of range gear to get.

 

[breakingcontact]

I agree with that. Sig is a good coach and taught me a lot in just one range session.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I'll throw something out there on TXI's side of things. A mental piece of "gear" that has helped me immensely is striving for a more complete understanding of and incorporating these rules into ALL of my efforts:

1) Pay Attention To Detail

• Little things make a big difference over time and volume. Do not overlook ANYTHING.

2) Perfect Practice Makes Perfect

• Do things to the absolute best of your ability, with max effort. This one is a bit of a misnomer. You don't always have to be perfect. Sometimes you need to push yourself until you fall of the tracks, then reel it back in, get back to fundamentals, and focus on perfect practice. Wash, rinse, repeat. Be careful not to focus so hard on being perfect, that you never let yourself at least occasionally push past your comfort zone. If you never experience pushing past your comfort zone in many areas, you will never reach the next level, you will simply become very good and experienced at the level you are at.

3) Repetition Builds Neural Memory

• "Muscle memory" is a bit of a misnomer. It actually develops in the brain with neurons. Google myelin and you will see that people aren't "born with it", some simply understand and exercise these principles better than other people, whether they realize it or not. Although impossible to estimate, scientists often say 300-500 reps to begin short term memory, 3-5k reps to build long term memory, and 10 years or 10,000hrs to the beginning stages of mastery. Bottom line, you need to put in the reps. Consistency is key, and a little bit every day is awesome. Just remember rule #2 and don't forget to pay attention to detail.

4) Neural Memory Builds Subconscious Competence

• Subconscious competence is the ultimate goal. If you do steps 1-3 long enough and in enough volume, you will eventually notice that you don't have to hardly focus on many of those little, fundamental things as much, and sometimes it's almost as if you can do it in your sleep. Think of something in your life that you do every single day, you don't even have to think about it, and you do it well. Could be something with your job, a hobby, etc. Consider how you accomplished that, and you will begin to understand the purpose and value of these rules. Ultimately, continually place significant focus on maintaining accountability with yourself and realistic standards. The opposite end of the spectrum is subconscious incompetence, in which you didn't pay attention to detail, didn't practice well, didn't push yourself, did plenty of reps building BAD habits, did not keep realistic standards in mind, and ultimately you have become really good.....at something that is inferior or simply does not matter.

 

[breakingcontact]

Regarding point #2 there. Thats what I was caught up on. I had good groups but as soon as id increase speed and the groups would open up id get frustrated and not go for speed or more importantly a good balance between speed and accuracy.

Life tends to remind me often of how imperfect I am.

 

[robertc1024]

+1 to all of that.

 

[breakingcontact]

+1 to all of that.

Thanks.

Seriously though i know Sig is serious about shooting and looks at it scientifically.

Good stuff.

 

[robertc1024]

I are engineer - understand.

 

[breakingcontact]

I are engineer - understand.

You not English good.