shorten chl class?

[Acera]

Gary I think you misjudge me. I possess a valid CHL, so I do follow the laws. This discussion is not about being above the law or disobeying the law, it's about one simple premise.

Why are citizens of the state of Texas required to do things to carry a concealed firearm that citizens of other states are not?

What makes us so different? Why are they treated differently than we are? Is it fair that they don't have to spend the time, money, etc. to exercise their right for self protection when have to jump through a lot of hoops for the exact same privilege?

I am all for training if you feel you need it. There are fine folks on this board that will help you in many aspects of firearm ownership and help increase your proficiency if you feel the need. If you want to learn more about the laws, feel free to do that, no argument from me about your right to do what makes your own self feel comfortable in your actions.

No temper tantrum, just a question. The temper may seem to appear when some try to redirect away from that simple question and try to place their own perceived inadequacies on me or everyone else.

 

[txinvestigator]

Shorts, so what's more important, people on campus feeling safe or a rape victim being safe? How can an assailant take a gun away from you if he has blood from a head wound running in his eyes?

I know it is terrible for me to say this, and I pray I'm some day forgiven for what I'm about to say, but I hope that old woman and the wife and daughters of those voting away rights of people to defend themselves find themselve on the wrong end of a dick.

So on the wrong end of you?

 

[benenglish]

Amazing! Over 100 posts on this topic and I don't think anyone addressed the original question.

I'll be the weirdo here and actually do that. Leaving aside all questions about whether there should actually be a class or testing or license requirement at all, the legislation proposed would shorten the class to 4 hours minimum, 6 hours maximum, plus range time.

Is this a good idea? Yes.

I support the proposed legislation simply because the material required by law to be presented in class can be covered in 4 hours; we already do that for renewals. New CHLs just get an extra 6 hours of filler material or reinforcement of the mandated material or something else, generally determined by whatever the instructor feels appropriate. That's a waste of time for experienced shooters yet the entire 10 hours isn't nearly enough to bring real idiots up to speed.

A good article on the reasoning behind the bill is here: https://www.texasfirearmscoalition....need-relief-from-excessively-long-chl-courses

 

[Texanjoker]

If they shorten it, will other states still accept a TX CHL? I think that is the big question.

 

[Shorts]

Shorts, so what's more important, people on campus feeling safe or a rape victim being safe? How can an assailant take a gun away from you if he has blood from a head wound running in his eyes?

Are you asking sarcastically/rhetorically or are you being serious?

I know it is terrible for me to say this, and I pray I'm some day forgiven for what I'm about to say, but I hope that old woman and the wife and daughters of those voting away rights of people to defend themselves find themselve on the wrong end of a dick.

I'm pretty disappointed and disgusted that you'd suggest you hope anyone becomes a victim of rape. I can't believe any man would wish that on any woman. Frankly, you've just earned your way to my Ignore list. Your foul mouthed tirade above got you going that way, but your rape suggestion seals it for good. I don't think you're a good man. Your input is not valid to me. You certainly don't think before you post if you put your raw thoughts into written word on a public forum. I'd say clean it up but I don't care if you dig yourself so far into a hole that you get a vacation from the forum. Berate me after this post if you wish, I won't see it. I won't care.

 

[Texanjoker]

Are you asking sarcastically/rhetorically or are you being serious?



I'm pretty disappointed and disgusted that you'd suggest you hope anyone becomes a victim of rape. I can't believe any man would wish that on any woman. Frankly, you've just earned your way to my Ignore list. Your foul mouthed tirade above got you going that way, but your rape suggestion seals it for good. I don't think you're a good man. Your input is not valid to me. You certainly don't think before you post if you put your raw thoughts into written word on a public forum. I'd say clean it up but I don't care if you dig yourself so far into a hole that you get a vacation from the forum. Berate me after this post if you wish, I won't see it. I won't care.

That is pretty bad. I've worked a lot of sexual assaults and it is very traumatic on the victim. I am going to hope that was a joke.

 

[GaryH]

Why are citizens of the state of Texas required to do things to carry a concealed firearm that citizens of other states are not?

What makes us so different? Why are they treated differently than we are? Is it fair that they don't have to spend the time, money, etc. to exercise their right for self protection when have to jump through a lot of hoops for the exact same privilege?

State legislators are the reason.

 

[GaryH]

[Are you asking sarcastically/rhetorically or are you being serious? /QUOTE]

Rhetorical. The answer should be obvious.

 

[GaryH]

That is pretty bad. I've worked a lot of sexual assaults and it is very traumatic on the victim. I am going to hope that was a joke.

Damned right it is very traumatic on the victim.

Maybe I'm a little too pissed off about this subject since it hits so close to home, and maybe I should have kept family members out of it, BUT what is it going to take for these bastards to consider the safety of the few over the feelings of the many? Maybe I should have just said that those voting to take away one's safety should personally experience what a rape victim experiences. I can guarantee you that bald headed dude upon finding out his daughter or wife was raped would not be telling her that if she had used a ball point pen for protection nothing would have happened...or that she should have just said no.

 

[Vaquero]

Gary, put down the shovel. Please. The rape comment was way out of line and anything shy of a retraction and apology is not helping your cause.

 

[Charlie]

Back to the .......ahem .............. initial topic. "Shorten classes?" If .............. we are required to have them, they should be worthwhile. I don't mind the class as it's like range time or freshening up on any new laws, etc. Whether we should have to take them is a different question and debate. Just my opinion.

 

[GaryH]

Vaquero, you're right. Wishing anything like that on another human being is wrong, but I admitted it was wrong at the time. That disclaimer will have to do.

 

[GaryH]

Back to the .......ahem .............. initial topic. "Shorten classes?" If .............. we are required to have them, they should be worthwhile. I don't mind the class as it's like range time or freshening up on any new laws, etc. Whether we should have to take them is a different question and debate. Just my opinion.

I've signed up to take the class in a couple of weeks. It's 10 hours including range time. How much time is actually devoted to information for the written part of the test? Is the class shorter if there are fewer people in the class needing to qualify, or do the instructors just give more information?

 

[Robb in Austin]

The 10 hrs is the minimum required. And as others have stated is at least 6hrs too long.

When handed the test, it was pretty obvious that the class could probably be pared down to 1 hr, including range qual, and you could still pass it.

 

[benenglish]

When handed the test, it was pretty obvious that the class could probably be pared down to 1 hr, including range qual, and you could still pass it.

I have seen a statement by a highly experienced instructor that he could teach all the material required for the written test in 30 minutes. For a small class with a single range relay of people who already know how to shoot, I think your estimate of 1 hour for the whole course is do-able.

 

[Acera]

Remember that shortening the class on your own as an instructor will get you in hot water. Like defensive driving, you have to sit through the entire time, whether or not you are done or face the consequences if caught.

 

[Robb in Austin]

I've signed up to take the class in a couple of weeks. It's 10 hours including range time. How much time is actually devoted to information for the written part of the test? Is the class shorter if there are fewer people in the class needing to qualify, or do the instructors just give more information?

A separate reply because I didn't fully answer your questions(I don't think). I took my class on the 28th.

Of the 10 hrs of my class, probably 6 hrs was devoted to reading the law to us, verbatim, and discussion of it. Included in that 6hrs was reviewing communication techniques/non-violent dispute resolution which is also part of the curriculum. The rest of the time was watching some semi-relevant video, range time, and the test(which took me all of 5 mins to take. If that.

If the class was 1 student, it would still be 10hrs long.

 

[txinvestigator]

I have seen a statement by a highly experienced instructor that he could teach all the material required for the written test in 30 minutes. For a small class with a single range relay of people who already know how to shoot, I think your estimate of 1 hour for the whole course is do-able.

Anyone can read you the questions and answers, but that does not mean you KNOW the material. I have been teaching a decade, and the required material, to actually cover it, takes 10 hours.

 

[benenglish]

Anyone can read you the questions and answers, but that does not mean you KNOW the material. I have been teaching a decade, and the required material, to actually cover it, takes 10 hours.

The man I was quoting was not advocating cutting the classroom portion to 30 minutes, merely pointing out that "teaching to the test" was possible in a short period of time.

I've only been through one class and one renewal so you obviously have far more experience, but in my limited experience, I felt that a great percentage of the time I spent in class was non-productive padding intended to just keep us in the seats for the full time.

Of course, "in the seats for the full time" and "10 hours" aren't equal. The current 10-hour classes include range time and breaks. With mandated breaks and a reasonable estimate of range time, how much time is actually spent in the classroom, teaching? 7 hours or so? The proposed legislation would cut that to 4 to 6 hours of actual classroom time (minus mandatory breaks, so actually 3 1/4 hours minimum to 5 hours 10 minutes max) not including range time. So I don't see it as *that* big of a change.

Do you see cutting your actual in-class lecture time from about 7 hours to about 5 hours as something that would make the class impossible to teach competently?

 

[txinvestigator]

I spend eight 50 minute hours on classroom, an hour for range and an hour for testing, grading, reviewing, completing forms and finishing up. The required material cannot be done by me in less time. I will not compromise my duty for the sake of time. Material will have to be cut to lesson the time.

I am fine with that, too. I prefer shorter days. You think sitting through the class once is hell, try doing it regularly. My day is easily 12 hours at the range, not including time to and from. Deal with students who don't pay attention, talk to their neighbor while you are speaking, try to make the range safe, etc, over and ove.........

I will gladly teach a shorter day, but that is only possible if they modify the course material. I don't know, or care, what other instructors do, teach or if they cut corners. I take my responsibility too seriously.