Radio Show Stance On Open Carry.

[Tejano Scott]

I want to apologize, I wanted to listen to the show yesterday but we had our Range Day event and I didn't get home till after 3pm, took a quick nap, chores around the house, 6pm Mass, and then home. Had a pretty packed day yesterday. I appreciate you giving us pro-OC people the chance to respond. It would have been great to talk about it on same day you guys discussed Colorado. Because tactically speaking, if this idiot saw a bunch of folks walking into the theater OC'ing, do you think he would have stayed true to his plan? Or moved on to the next theater? I know we can never know for sure, but it makes for an interesting question for all the POCWTRs and Anti-OC people to answer.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Hi guys, thanks for responding here.

I know there's Facebook and the actual show, but when this section of the forum was created for the show some of us thought this would be an area to interact with y'all. Next time we'll know how to interact with y'all a little better through the methods you suggested.

I know y'all are busy, have day jobs, and are trying to get a show out there for the public too. Even though I may disagree on some points, I appreciate your efforts and thank you for actively promoting gun ownership. Keep up the good work.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I'd like to thank everyone, especially Gary and Jason, for their calm and well thought out responses. It's easy to let emotions run wild with topics like this, and I appreciate everyone voicing their viewpoints in a calm manner.

 

[firefree]

I am a supporter of open carry because I am lazy and actually concealing a weapon is alot of work. If open carry was allowed I could partially conceal a weapoon on my belt without any effort to make sure some stupid shrill gun hater doesn't see it.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Not sure if that is a joke Firefree, but being lazy is not a good excuse to ever use when it comes to any type of carry of firearms. It's never going to be completely comfortable or easy, and that's just the compromise we all have to make if we want to realistically carry something we can realistically use.

 

[gcmj45acp]

Guys, we really do appreciate your support and interest in the show. I have been lurking a lot here on TGT but, between work and other commitments, there are times that I miss checking in here for several days like I did last week. None of us on the show pretend to be the be-all-end-all experts on anything. We simply try to give honest opinions and accurate information without the spin or commercial bias that comes with being paid by one manufacturer or another for glowing reviews.

We tend to stick to promoting the stuff we know works or has worked time and time again. Progress and experience being what they are, sometimes we find ourselves revising our previous positions. When it comes to the subject of this threat, open carry, we've never deviated from our support of gun rights. If that wasn't clear, that's on us but, rest assured, we will always support the expansion of gun rights. Now from a practical stand point, with some of you, we'll just have to agree to disagree sometimes with a healthy bit of ribbing.

Right now, I'm trying to get the last three shows uploaded but, Go Daddy is being a pain in my ass. Our hosting agreement with them is coming up for renewal so we may be moving the site to Square Space or someone else when that time comes. I've had a really long day at the office (arrived at 0615 yesterday morning and have only been home about ten minutes) but, I'm hoping that between service calls today, I'll have time to "fix" the php.ini file that GoDaddy "helped" me with by limiting my ability to upload a file larger than 8MB.

 

[matefrio]

I need to call in. Sundays aren't normally the best for me. After this week's show it seems an effort, on my part, would be worth it.

 

[gcmj45acp]

Or hit us up on facebook.

 

[poolingmyignorance]

So, from a civilian, self defense point of view you need to make sure that you have clearly identified a threat as serious with intent to harm you in such a severity that you feel your life is in jepordy. Before you produce a weapon. Correct? How long does that take? How far away does an attacker have to be before such a person (saw with a knife) is a deadly threat? 21 feet is the old rule of thumb for minimum "safe distance" from a knife wielding attacker. But in reality, who produces a weapon then approaches you? Or do they close the distance keeping it concealed till the last possible moment. At which point you need to clear your weapon from your shirt, coat, pocket, draw it evade oncomming attack AND stop the threat. Thats hard to do from 21 feet with somebody sprinting at you.. now imagine from 4 feet with somebody lunging. Your cut. Period. Now ofcourse some martial arts defense would be the correct option for such a situation. Some disarm techniques, etc. Whats even better? Not ever having been approached. Why bother attack somebody who's obviously more than able to defend themselves?
If concealed carry is SOO much more tactically adventageous, then why don't LEO's and Military impliment it? Or if open carry makes you so much more vunerable, why aren't LEOs routienly disarmed and neutralized?
When you do the math, open carry makes sense. It's not always the most fashionable sense...but I personally would like to be able to carry a pistol when I'm out on the bayous in the evening walking my dog. It definately be more comfortable in these intense texas summers. I'm not out there trying to play cowboy, or mall ninja.. just don't want to have a big sweaty lump in my pocket rubbing me raw while I try to get some exersize in. I offten elect NOT to carry when I run for such a reason. Doesn't matter where you chose to go in general you never know who might be there. I've unintentionally ran up on groups of men/ youths smoking pot and drinking several times..and I can't help but have had them make me feel uncomfortable, knowing that I'm already tired from running, sprinting or fighting isn't going to be much of an option should they deceid I might be fun to mess with. Open carry would definately make somebody seem like a bad choice of a victim.

 

[#1gunner]

took me a while to see where you were coming from. Not I understand what you were saying. We have bayous here in texas?

 

[poolingmyignorance]

took me a while to see where you were coming from. Not I understand what you were saying. We have bayous here in texas?

Well here in Houston thats what we call em.

 

[JBerry]

If concealed carry is SOO much more tactically adventageous, then why don't LEO's and Military impliment it? Or if open carry makes you so much more vunerable, why aren't LEOs routienly disarmed and neutralized?

Open carry would definately make somebody seem like a bad choice of a victim.

Leo's and military are marked in distinctive uniforms for a reason, to act as a visual deterrent. By definition, if you see the uniform, you know they are armed. As far as police are concerned, they open carry with a TON of retention. Level three holsters, attached to sturdy belts, held on with keepers. If someone (myself included) wanted to open carry, a quality retention holster would be a must have. That officer has all his retention devices, plus secondary weapons (OC, Taser, Baton), and the ultimate weapon, his radio. These force multipliers are there for a reason, years of hard lessons learned by officer having their guns taken from them. Level three retention holster evolved for a reason. Unsecured, cheap, thumb break holsters do not secure the weapon enough. The folks I have seen open carry have typically been in open top, cheap ass Fobus, Uncle Mike's, or SERPA. All of which are shit for retention. If you are going to hang it out for the world to see, you need to be ready to hold onto it for dear life. My first class in weapon retention was a 3 on 1 wrestling match, with me getting picked up off the ground by my holster (Safariland 070 level 3, holding a 1911). The holster held, and I became a FIRM believer in retention holster. And even with retention, I can draw and fire in under 1.5 seconds.

My agency's firearms policy states "the first level of retention is concealment" therefore, while it is legal for me to open carry on and off duty, our policy states we must make a reasonable effort to conceal the pistol. Why is that in policy, because of HARD LESSONS LEARNED with folks trying to grab guns. Even cops have to worry about it, and we have to train annually on weapon retention. Why? Because of years of HARD LESSONS LEARNED. SO I carry concealed every day. Depending on the pants I wear I carry IWB or OWB. My choice for carry is a Bianchi Auto Lock holster. Because it is passive retention, I just holster, hear the click and it is locked. It holds tight to the body, and I have been yanked around the room by the holster durring training and it did not fail. I have seen several SERPA's and other cheap holsters simply ripped off the belt with almost no effort. They suck. You can argue all you want about your brand X, Y, or Z holster and how safe it is, but unload your gun, holster up, and go full speed with a friend trying to rip that gun out for the holster and see how well it works out for you.

As said before, we support all gun rights, we just prefer concealed. I could carry open every day, and having done so, I did NOT like the extra attention I got every where I went. If you want to open carry, knock yourself out. But BUY A QUALITY RETENTION HOLSTER and as always PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE with that retention holster. (I would recommend the BIANCHI Auto Lock because it holds tighter to the body than most, but Safariland ALS and SLS are both solid choices. AVOID paddle holsters, they do not hold up in retention drills)

As far as "Open Carry would make someone a bad choice for a victim", there you go using logic. You are using your non criminal thought process which is normal. You do not live your life to hurt and rob others. Think like a turd for a while. Example, I see this same old guy come into the coffee shop every morning open carrying his gun. I am a 20 year old. He is a 45 year old. He has a gun, but he always has his head buried in the paper or his phone. After weeks of seeing this, I get my buddy to buy a large hot coffee and wait outside one day. When this 45 year old man comes out, my buddy hits him in the face with scalding coffee, I run up behind and grab the pistol and we both run off. Now, I have a gun that can't be traced to me. Far fetched? Maybe, Maybe not. Same scenario, 45 year old guy always has on a jacket, turd does not know who out of the 30 folks in the coffee shop might be armed. Logic says open carry would deter the crime, but crook logic could simply see an easy theft. I am just throwing out examples, so DO NOT THINK I WANT TO RESTRICT YOUR RIGHTS. But as a cop, I have to think about this scenario happening to me. Hence, my belief in retention holsters for EDC. Do I carry IWB open top? Yes, sometimes depending on wardrobe, but it is always covered up.

As always, you might agree, you might not. I am always open to hearing th other side of the argument. Hopefully, others are willing to listen to my thoughts with an open mind as well. Let me know what you think.

Stay safe folks, and what ever you carry, and however you carry, just PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE and never leave it at home.

 

[matefrio]

Would you support legislation that would allow open carry in Texas?

 

[#1gunner]

Totally agree and this has been my only concern. I sure hope it passes though!!!<---- I believe you are the #1 target for a BG that does not care about your life when he robs 7-11. I do know it would be a deterrent against the petty criminal however I am not one to chance that and would carry concealed. Lot of this depends on the area I am in also. You can walk around for 50 years open carrying and nothing ever happen. You get this kid that graduated High School 40 years after you did and he can end your life simply because he knew you would return fire on him when he sticks his pistol in the clerks face. So it would have worked fine for 50 years but that one miniute that it did not work caused a bad reaction. I personally am not willing to take this chance "in todays society".

 

[txgunner00]

............... (I would recommend the BIANCHI Auto Lock because it holds tighter to the body than most, but Safariland ALS and SLS are both solid choices. AVOID paddle holsters, they do not hold up in retention drills).............

One of the best arguments in this thread yet IMO. I am 100% for the law being changed as the current law infringes on our GOD GIVEN right to bear arms as defined and protected by the Second Amendment. I will be calling and writing my state reps to push for it in the upcoming legislative session. However, in today's society, I myself would not OC in most public places for many of the reasons outlined by Jason. I would like the option to OC in some places depending on the situation and I would like the law to allow it.

Jason- which Bianchi holster are you referring to? I looked at their website and didn't see one being described as "auto lock". Thanks.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Totally agree and this has been my only concern. I sure hope it passes though!!!<---- I believe you are the #1 target for a BG that does not care about your life when he robs 7-11. I do know it would be a deterrent against the petty criminal however I am not one to chance that and would carry concealed. Lot of this depends on the area I am in also. You can walk around for 50 years open carrying and nothing ever happen. You get this kid that graduated High School 40 years after you did and he can end your life simply because he knew you would return fire on him when he sticks his pistol in the clerks face. So it would have worked fine for 50 years but that one miniute that it did not work caused a bad reaction. I personally am not willing to take this chance "in todays society".

So unlikely IMO. I believe it's more likely he will see me OC'ing, and then wait till I leave or pick another 7/11. I bet my version happens way more than yours. Robbers are cowards and pussies, they don't want to get into shoot outs. They pick targets of OPPORTUNITY. OC'ing shrinks those opportunities. CHL makes it even a further a guessing game. Rob in Texas, you damn sure might get shot.

 

[#1gunner]

So unlikely IMO. I believe it's more likely he will see me OC'ing, and then wait till I leave or pick another 7/11. I bet my version happens way more than yours. Robbers are cowards and pussies, they don't want to get into shoot outs. They pick targets of OPPORTUNITY. OC'ing shrinks those opportunities. CHL makes it even a further a guessing game. Rob in Texas, you damn sure might get shot.

No, your saying exactly what I ment. Maybe I worded it wrong.

I ment or said, petty criminals will not take action after noticing you, however there are those(colorado) that would have cared less if you or I was there. They are out there and thats whom I am speaking of. The BG's that just dont care. MS-13, Long time criminals that dont care about prison, people High on drugs, ones that are just desperate and dont care about shooting anyone.

Again, your statement was right in line with my thinking.

 

[Tejano Scott]

No, your saying exactly what I ment. Maybe I worded it wrong.

I ment or said, petty criminals will not take action after noticing you, however there are those(colorado) that would have cared less if you or I was there. They are out there and thats whom I am speaking of. The BG's that just dont care. MS-13, Long time criminals that dont care about prison, people High on drugs, ones that are just desperate and dont care about shooting anyone.

Again, your statement was right in line with my thinking.

Sweet! My reading comprehension skills suck this morning!

 

[#1gunner]

It may be me man. I dont know..lol

 

[JBerry]

I support your right to open carry. (how many times will I need to type that?)

If open carry passes, knock yourself out and open carry. Just PLEASE be prepareed for the attention you you will draw, and invest in a quality retention holster.

I have no clue how to post a photo on here, so no pic of my holster. But it says Bianchi Modle 82 on the back of it. I thought it was called an "auto lock" , but perhaps that was just something printed on the package. I bought it about 5 yeas ago, so I don't recall. It is not 100% "grab proof", but if you don't know how to hit the releas tab, it should slow down anyone unfamiliar with it. I can not recommend Safariland enough for their retention. The ALS and SLS are sturdy holsters, they just don't hold the gun as tight to the body as the bianch 82, so they print on the shirt more. But for open duty rig carry, they rock.

One more reason for retention, try running. Go home, unload your pistol, holster up and do some jumping jacks, or go try to climb your back yard fence and see how secure your pistol feels. How confident are you that if you had to grab say your 3 year old kid in your arms and run for dear life that your gun would not got flying. If you got jumped Without warning and started rolling on the ground, would your pistol be with you? Or would it be sliding across the floor... If you had to jump over movie theater seats in the dark while 300 people pushed past you, would your gun still be with you when you finally get to a position where you could engage the crazy shooter?

These are just things to consider...

Stay safe folks!