Church Sign Question

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

"Believe what you wish"

The 'sign law'...if you will, is what's required, in it's particulars, not some pamplhet or what have you.

"Believe what you wish" right back at you.

 

[toddnjoyce]

The op says he received and read a bulletin handed to him with that exact wording of the legislation for 30.05/06 and 07. I don't know how anyone can claim that is not written notice. Believe what you wish.

The OP wrote

2. I recently noticed the 30.05, .06 and .07 notices posted in the Sunday bulletin in very, very small print (not bold either) down at the bottom of one of the pages.

Does that prevent someone from carrying in the church?

Emphasis added. Does a speed limit sign prevent someone from speeding?

 

[Eastexasrick]

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

The Statue prescribes the size, and type of font, of said written notice. Per the Statue this is a requirement in order for the written notice, to be effective notice, under the Statue. If you don't understand what this, there is no hope. It has been quoted herein.

 

[DoubleDuty]

The Statue prescribes the size, and type of font, of said written notice. Per the Statue this is a requirement in order for the written notice, to be effective notice, under the Statue. If you don't understand what this, there is no hope. It has been quoted herein.

Just like a lot of people don't understand 30.05 only pertains to unlicensed firearms carriers and that a lot of law enforcement themselves don't know the law.

 

[Renegade]

Oral notice is probably not valid when the property changed:

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.


The church bulletin is probably valid:

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

There are three types of notice - oral, written and a sign. Most only understand the sign.

 

[alternative]

The Statue prescribes the size, and type of font, of said written notice. Per the Statue this is a requirement in order for the written notice, to be effective notice, under the Statue. If you don't understand what this, there is no hope. It has been quoted herein.

The statute prescribes the appearance of signs, not when you are handed written notice. Can you point to where the statute points to the font that a written notice is? I know what a sign requires but written notice may be handed to an individual and be nothing more than a card. @Renegade is correct.

 

[General Zod]

The church bulletin is probably valid:

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

Except the statute says the notice has to be "provided" to the person, not "made available". It has to be specifically given to him, not handed out randomly. Same reason signage has to be readily visible at the entrance, not posted on the back of a closet door.

 

[Renegade]

Except the statute says the notice has to be "provided" to the person, not "made available". It has to be specifically given to him, not handed out randomly. Same reason signage has to be readily visible at the entrance, not posted on the back of a closet door.

OP said he received it:

2. I recently noticed the 30.05, .06 and .07 notices posted in the Sunday bulletin in very, very small print (not bold either) down at the bottom of one of the pages.

 

[General Zod]

OP said he received it:

2. I recently noticed the 30.05, .06 and .07 notices posted in the Sunday bulletin in very, very small print (not bold either) down at the bottom of one of the pages.

It has to be given to him specifically as notice that he is not permitted to carry in those premises, not distributed widely and buried in a bunch of other information. By your logic, the church taking out an ad in the local newspaper with 30.06 wording at the bottom would be effective notice.

Receiving it doesn't make it valid.

 

[Eastexasrick]

The statute prescribes the appearance of signs, not when you are handed written notice. Can you point to where the statute points to the font that a written notice is? I know what a sign requires but written notice may be handed to an individual and be nothing more than a card. @Renegade is correct.

"Provided to the person" not published in a flyer. Statutes are not to be liberally construed but adhered too. No hope for you as long as you seek to liberally construe a Statue.

 

[Renegade]

It has to be given to him specifically as notice that he is not permitted to carry in those premises, not distributed widely and buried in a bunch of other information. By your logic, the church taking out an ad in the local newspaper with 30.06 wording at the bottom would be effective notice.

Receiving it doesn't make it valid.

Law does not require it to be specifically given to him. It just says "if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication." OP has admitted he has received notice. As long as the verbage matches the law it is GTG.

I would agree a church bulletin mailed to your home is not likely going to be held valid, but one provided on the premises, that you stated on a public internet forum you read, likely would be. Anybody who did not take a bulletin or read it would home free. But the critical fact here is OP read it.

 

[General Zod]

Law does not require it to be specifically given to him. It just says "if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication." OP has admitted he has received notice. As long as the verbage matches the law it is GTG.

I would agree a church bulletin mailed to your home is not likely going to be held valid, but one provided on the premises, that you stated on a public internet forum you read, likely would be. Anybody who did not take a bulletin or read it would home free. But the critical fact here is OP read it.

The law was written to create inconvenience to a property owner who wants to restrict carry, not to create a convenient loophole. And "provides notice to the person" does mean given specifically to him. Otherwise the information is simply "made available".

Just like I asked the newbie, why are you trying to make it easier for the pastor to restrict the OP's rights? If you go into a restaurant and there's no 30.06 sign posted at the door, but it's written in fine print at the bottom of the menu you're handed after you've been seated, does that mean you were properly provided notice?

 

[Renegade]

If you go into a restaurant and there's no 30.06 sign posted at the door, but it's written in fine print at the bottom of the menu you're handed after you've been seated, does that mean you were properly provided notice?

Yes.

And "provides notice to the person" does mean given specifically to him. Otherwise the information is simply "made available".

OK re-reading what OP wrote:

I recently noticed the 30.05, .06 and .07 notices posted in the Sunday bulletin

I guess he needs to explain that. I took to mean the bulletin was handed to each church goer as they entered/left, which is how it was when I was a kid. If the bulletin was posted on a wall, or pamphlets in a box down the hall, not likely.

 

[General Zod]

Yes.

Oh good Lord. No it doesn't.

OK re-reading what OP wrote:

I recently noticed the 30.05, .06 and .07 notices posted in the Sunday bulletin

I guess he needs to explain that. I took to mean the bulletin was handed to each church goer as they entered/left, which is how it was when I was a kid. If the bulletin was posted on a wall, or pamphlets in a box down the hall, not likely.

Being handed a bulletin doesn't mean the bulletin gets read. 30.06 notification has to be specific and handed to the specific person or it does not measure up to the standard set out in the law. Handed to them for the purpose of notifying them of the prohibition, not in a general collection of information.

 

[Renegade]

Being handed a bulletin doesn't mean the bulletin gets read. 30.06 notification has to be specific and handed to the specific person or it does not measure up to the standard set out in the law. Handed to them for the purpose of notifying them of the prohibition, not in a general collection of information.

It is indisputable notice was provided to OP and he received notice.

 

[General Zod]

It is indisputable notice was provided to OP and he received notice.

It's not "notice" that qualifies according to the statute, and it wasn't provided specifically to him. The law says "provided to the person" not "provided to people in attendance".

But hey, if you're that desperate to be told you can't carry...that's on you. But it's not valid under the statute.

 

[General Zod]

BTW, if you have the option of saying "Oh, no thanks" and not taking the bulletin, then it's even further from "providing notice".

 

[Renegade]

It's not "notice" that qualifies according to the statute, and it wasn't provided specifically to him. The law says "provided to the person" not "provided to people in attendance".

provides (third person present)

1. make available for use; supply:

 

[Renegade]

This is why cards are almost never used. Signs are the most popular.

 

[Renegade]

But hey, if you're that desperate to be told you can't carry...that's on you. But it's not valid under the statute.

Yes I am desperate to know who wants to deny me carry rights so I can go elsewhere with my money.