Church Sign Question

[leVieux]

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It is a mattter of media purveying ignorance.

I’d have a private talk, explain that postings do not exclude armed crazies & violent criminals; only legal carriers.

If he doesn’t respond, or points-out legal gibberish; find another Church.

BTW, we recently quite gingerly approached the topic with our own young Pastor, to happily learn that several Church members are armed at every service, including the Pastor.

My prior Pastor / Church had opposite stance as per the Archbishop’s order. I ignored it all.

leVieux

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[leVieux]

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It is a mattter of media purveying ignorance.

I’d have a private talk, explain that postings do not exclude armed crazies & violent criminals; only legal carriers.

If he doesn’t respond, or points-out legal gibberish; find another Church.

BTW, we recently quite gingerly approached the topic with our own young Pastor, to happily learn that several Church members are armed at every service, including the Pastor.

My prior Pastor / Church had opposite stance as per the Archbishop’s order. I ignored it all.

leVieux

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LET ME ADD THIS: If truly interested in security, an expert evaluation is in order, with recommendations.

Even after my prior Church received a SPECIFIC violent terror threat from a known criminal gang in the ‘hood, they still left at least five doors unlocked and unattended during every service and refused requests from police, retired cops, ex-military, & others of their own congregation to be armed for everyone’s REAL protection. We got together and assigned informal « door guards » in quiet defiance.

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[MTA]

Just asking for some whackjob to come in and waste the entire congregation

 

[leVieux]

Just asking for some whackjob to come in and waste the entire congregati

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Yes, then they’ll blame lack of gun-control !

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[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I would politely inform the pastor that I'm leaving due to his anti-gun stance.

 

[leVieux]

I would politely inform the pastor that I'm leaving due to his anti-gun stance.

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Yes, or maybe; but please explain exactly what the signs do, and can’t do before leaving.

I still run across sincere but issue-ignorant folks who believe that the signs, like some magic amulet, will make them more “safe”; when most here know that the exact opposite is true.

Living in N O, I carried EVERYWHERE. Once a month, we dined at a neighborhood restaurant where a local district’s SWAT TEAM had supper after their monthly meeting. We sat one or two tables over, and felt very, very safe.

Years back, b/f FL had CC, we were in Tallahassee for a Kenny Rogers Concert, had to walk through a scary neighborhood. On the way I met my Daughter’s BF, there with his city’s SWAT Team. We were allowed to walk there & back surrounded by them, some with concealed SMG’s.

I only sit back to door in restaurants when dining with a bunch of Cops or USBPs at my table.

Never stop trying to educate others; we all swim in a giant sea of LIES !

leVieux

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[alternative]

The OP originally asked a specific question; does previous oral notice constitute effective notice today. That answer is no. Then the OP asked ‘what about written notice in tiny print at the bottom of a flyer; is it effective notice. That answer in his specific case is no.

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

Are you aware of the requirements for those words to mean anything?

 

[alternative]

Are you aware of the requirements for those words to mean anything?

Written notice of exactly what legislation says must be on signs, size not important on written notice. Do you know something else about written notice? Enlighten me.

 

[Otto_Mation]

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

Written notice of exactly what legislation says must be on signs, size not important on written notice. Do you know something else about written notice? Enlighten me.

A 30.06 sign in a bulletin is meaningless for LTC holders. Here are the requirments:

The sign text must be in block letters at least one inch in height with contrasting color and be presented in both English and Spanish in a manner that is clearly visible to the public.

Full information can be found here:

https://www.compliancesigns.com/media/PDF/QA-TX-Weapons.pdf

 

[ZX9RCAM]

A 30.06 sign in a bulletin is meaningless for LTC holders. Here are the requirments:

The sign text must be in block letters at least one inch in height with contrasting color and be presented in both English and Spanish in a manner that is clearly visible to the public.

Full information can be found here:

https://www.compliancesigns.com/media/PDF/QA-TX-Weapons.pdf

This....

 

[General Zod]

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

From the Texas Penal Code:

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.03.
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"

Note that the law says the owner or his agent (in this case the pastor or someone in the church's organization) has to "provide written notice" to you that you are not permitted to carry there. That says to me they have to specifically hand you a card with the wording of a 30.06 sign, and it's unreasonable to assume that printing it in tiny text in a church bulletin you may or may not have read is sufficient. You specifically have to be given specific notification.

 

[General Zod]

Key words in my post above being "provides notice to the person", because it does not say "provides notice to the general public with the assumption that everyone will read it".

 

[alternative]

The op says he received and read a bulletin handed to him with that exact wording of the legislation for 30.05/06 and 07. I don't know how anyone can claim that is not written notice. Believe what you wish.

 

[Otto_Mation]

I wonder if the Pastor of this church really believes that if he prevents his congregation from carrying that someone with ill intent will not enter with a weapon and do harm. Maybe he thinks that God will protect them? The premise is ridiculous. God helps those who help themselves and Darwin's theory marches on. As many have said, you need to find a smarter pastor.

 

[DoubleDuty]

So what would be effective written notice? The bulletin had 30.05/06 and 07 wording in tiny print. If that is not written notice what is written notice?

It has to be the proper wording in the proper size font where it is impossible to miss. If it doesn't meet that standard it isn't enforceable.

 

[General Zod]

The op says he received and read a bulletin handed to him with that exact wording of the legislation for 30.05/06 and 07. I don't know how anyone can claim that is not written notice. Believe what you wish.

So the bulletin is printed on a card and consists only of the correct wording restricting concealed carry with no other content? And was specifically handed to the OP because the pastor suspected OP was carrying?

Because that's how that works. Something printed in tiny print on a bulletin that's handed out to everyone does not meet the criteria of "written notice" to a licensed or unlicensed carrier.

The law is specific, and notice must be specifically given to the person carrying. Not generally distributed about to everyone. You seem awfully invested in keeping him from carrying at church...and not very interested in what the law actually requires for that restriction to be valid.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Arguing with an obvious 'anti-gun' person is a waste of breath...

Having 'karen-ed' he or she will leave soon.

 

[General Zod]

Arguing with an obvious 'anti-gun' person is a waste of breath...

Having 'karen-ed' he or she will leave soon.

I'm just amazed at the sheer coincidence that OP's pastor would discover this thread and participate to this degree.

 

[Sasquatch]

It amazes me how many 2A supporters are so milk-toast when it comes to carrying to defend themselves or for others to carry for self defense.

A bunch of 2A "supporters" are far too ready to be apologists for antigunners.

Personally I wouldn't even bother trying to convince the pastor. I would find a new church, and tell those I cared about and were actual friends with why I'm leaving.

If any pastor can look at the tragedies that happened at White Settlement, Southerland Springs, or any other other churches across this country that have faced violence and still be convinced that their anti-gun policies are based in reason and logic they've got no business being a pastor. Even the Amish and the Quakers - pacificsts who cannot be legally drafted in war - believe in defending one's self from harm. There is also zero biblical text to stand upon for anti-gun policies, but plenty in there about arming oneself.

So it could be argued easily enough that a pastor who wants his flock disarmed is a tool of the devil himself and misleading the flock and setting them up for the slaughter.