Army chooses Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon

[TheDan]

what that will do to an AR10 might be interesting from a does the gun survive stand point.

We've seen .270wsm and .300wsm ARs before, although .277sig is supposedly much higher pressure.

 

[Darkpriest667]

I don’t believe anyone said it was ineffective at that range just not optimal, especially with just red dots. The Marines have been training at 500yds for decades and didn’t get an optic until mid 2000s. I used a M16A2 with irons in boot and got a M16A4 with RCO (ACOG) a couple of years later. Could have gotten a M4 when I got promoted later but I liked the 20” barrel.

No shot with a red dot past 300m is optimal. If it was a matter of effectiveness at range we could switch to MANY other calibers with the AR15 platform.

This is about getting off of that platform. That's what they want. Especially due to the new ATF rules.

 

[Darqhelmet]

No shot with a red dot past 300m is optimal. If it was a matter of effectiveness at range we could switch to MANY other calibers with the AR15 platform.

This is about getting off of that platform. That's what they want. Especially due to the new ATF rules.

DoD doesn’t give a shit about the ATF. You hearing something different?

 

[Darqhelmet]

Hot take... screw NATO

Sadly it matters. They suck fat dongs, but it matters.

 

[karlac]

It’s modern marksmanships version of an operational infographic…remember the AFQT for averages for IN is 64% IIIA with ASVAB scores of 50 or better, 33% IIIB/ASVAB 31-49, and 3% IV/ASVAB 10-30.…we’re talking cognitive ability of the average high school graduate composes 2/3ds of the IN and it goes down from there.

You guys should thank your lucky MRE’s you weren’t around for Project One Hundred Thousand (McNamara’s Morons”) …

 

[Darkpriest667]

DoD doesn’t give a shit about the ATF. You hearing something different?

Give me one reason we should switch from the AR15/AR10 platform as a battlerifle. And list specific data that shows a new platform is needed.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Give me one reason we should switch from the AR15/AR10 platform as a battlerifle. And list specific data that shows a new platform is needed.

I don’t think we need to. Nor should we.

But how the hell does that have anything to do with the ATF? This is the military industrial complex feed itself and generals setting up contracts for fat kick backs when they retire.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Just more bullshit to waste money on.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Remember this is an Army choice for select forces and not a wholesale shîtcan of the M16/M4 platform.

The Army’s force structure and employment doctrine is undergoing it’s largest shift since the post Vietnam AirLand Battle doctrine*. While most of the change is at Division and above, AimPoint/Army 2030 envisions a much different Multi Domain Operations fight than has been focused on pretty much since Desert Storm.

Those changes were used to inform NGSW requirements which is why we are where we are today.

* https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11542

 

[Darkpriest667]

Remember this is an Army choice for select forces and not a wholesale shîtcan of the M16/M4 platform.

The Army’s force structure and employment doctrine is undergoing it’s largest shift since the post Vietnam AirLand Battle doctrine*. While most of the change is at Division and above, AimPoint/Army 2030 envisions a much different Multi Domain Operations fight than has been focused on pretty much since Desert Storm.

Those changes were used to inform NGSW requirements which is why we are where we are today.

* https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11542

Wealth of information as always thanks for this.

 

[karlac]

Remember this is an Army choice for select forces and not a wholesale shîtcan of the M16/M4 platform.

The Army’s force structure and employment doctrine is undergoing it’s largest shift since the post Vietnam AirLand Battle doctrine*. While most of the change is at Division and above, AimPoint/Army 2030 envisions a much different Multi Domain Operations fight than has been focused on pretty much since Desert Storm.

Those changes were used to inform NGSW requirements which is why we are where we are today.

* https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11542

Informative resource, explains a lot. Thanks!

 

[Younggun]

So you're arguing that a soldier should shoot 30, 60, 90 rounds or his basic load and smoke 3 dudes? Within 300m? Or how about shoot 5-10 rounds and smoke 3 dudes. BRM and 7-8 dude.

The Army attempted this long ago with the Krag rifle with the idea that slower firing and well placed shots would be more effective than putting lots of lead down range with “good enough” accuracy. It failed miserably.

The American Krag: Obsolete at Birth | Exhibits | Pritzker Military Museum & Library | Chicago

Learn more about the history of the Krag-Jorgensen rifle.

www.pritzkermilitary.org

 

[G O B]

Tripling the impact force turns a lot of cover into concealment.

 

[tekiwap]

My thoughts are if you don't want to die improvise overcome adapt if they don't go out 300.start there
And figure out how far.
I guess I'm a closet sociopath but truth is I don't want to die. I'm going to figure out how to kill you

IDK what you just said but it moved me.

 

[TipBledsoe]

I looked at the rifle and caliber they plan on changing over to. I can't see any reason that this should be the typical infantryman weapon. Almost all engagements are within 300 meters and this thing boasts performance above 6.5 creedmor.

You get less rounds, less capacity per magazine, and it's heavier. This is completely stupid. For Specops or special warfare missions I understand, but that 6.8x51 has no more armor penetration than a 5.56 when talking about level 4 plates, which is what most combat troops should and do wear.

... And I don't see the Sig having the QCB capability either

 

[TheDan]

... And I don't see the Sig having the QCB capability either

Don't need to carry flashbangs anymore. Just poke the muzzle without the suppressor in a room and squeeze off a few rounds.

 

[TipBledsoe]

QCB = quick change barrel

 

[TheDan]

QCB = quick change barrel

 

[Darkpriest667]

8000 MSRP from Sig LOL

SIG MCX Spear & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER

This highly configurable MCX series of Personal Defense Weapons includes machine pistol and short barrel rifle variants, compact for concealment, suppressor ready.

www.sigsauer.com

 

[oldag]

8000 MSRP from Sig LOL

SIG MCX Spear & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER

This highly configurable MCX series of Personal Defense Weapons includes machine pistol and short barrel rifle variants, compact for concealment, suppressor ready.

www.sigsauer.com

Proud of that one, aren't they.